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10-24-2012, 02:45 PM #101
I guess to better make my point: The best, beyond the shadow of a doubt players of the 60s-80s would fit in at a high level today. The average "good" QB would be trash (Namath, Bradshaw, McMahan etc.), and the average player would simply be backup fodder, at best. With baseball, it's even worse: No one will break Cy Young's record, because no one will pitch 40+ games a year, nor will they play with a lack of skill as players did back then. I think that goes all the way into the 60s. The best pitchers (Bob Gibson, Sandy Cofax, etc.) would probably still be amazing. I'm just glad no one's gonna argue that Sid Luckman or Mordecai Brown would be outstanding today, because they were many decades ago...
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10-24-2012, 03:07 PM #102
Jay Cutler thinks Suh hit was clean
Posted by Josh Alper on October 23, 2012, 2:57 PM EDT
AP
The NFL decided not to fine Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh for his hit on Bears quarterback Jay Cutler during Monday night’s game.
Cutler has no problem with that decision, even though he was forced out of the game briefly and left with injured ribs as a result of the hit. During an interview with WMVP in Chicago, Cutler said that he doesn’t anticipate having any issue getting ready in time to face the Panthers and that he didn’t find anything wrong with Suh’s play.
It was a tough hit and he caught me just right. It was an awkward fall more than anything. I still think it was clean and he is a good player,” Cutler said, via Vaughn McClure of the Chicago Tribune. “I knew it was my ribs and it wasn’t my shoulder or head or anything like that. His knee and the ball got caught in my ribs. … I knew on my way down it wasn’t going to be good.”
Cutler’s view differs from the one wide receiver Brandon Marshall expressed after the game, but there shouldn’t be too much more fuel left in this fire now that the NFL and Cutler have said that there’s nothing more to see here.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...clean-as-well/
Last edited by The Benjamin; 10-24-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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10-24-2012, 03:15 PM #103 
Originally Posted by
The Benjamin 
The NFL decided not to fine Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh for his hit on Bears quarterback Jay Cutler during Monday night’s game.
Cutler’s view differs from the one wide receiver Brandon Marshall expressed after the game, but there shouldn’t be too much more fuel left in this fire now that the NFL and Cutler have said that there’s nothing more to see here.
Nough said
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10-24-2012, 03:21 PM #104
According to the article, I guess Ken would call Cutler one of my "friends" since we have the same view point on the tackle
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10-24-2012, 03:21 PM #105
Junior Member
LOL at posting, then quoting your post from a minute earlier, then posting again, after you posted "Nough said"
Of course Cutler isnt going to complain. He isnt a whiner. But his friend Brandon Marshall could see how Suh's take down was dirty.
Nough said.
Last edited by KenMasters; 10-24-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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10-24-2012, 03:26 PM #106 Originally Posted by
KenMasters LOL at posting, then quoting your post from a minute earlier, then posting again, after you posted "Nough said"
Of course Cutler isnt going to complain. He isnt a whiner. But his friend Brandon Marshall could see how Suh's take down was dirty.
Nough said.
Explain the lack of a fine if the hit was dirty. Apparently the NFL also agrees that the hit was not dirty.
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10-24-2012, 03:45 PM #107
You would have to take any subjectivity out of any rules. Intimidating and punishing are subject to personal interpretation. Also, I am sure Suh would say he was not "stuffing". Additionally, what would be the interpretation of unnecessarily or what constitutes "wrestling". Driving down is also a grey area, and how much force is driving down verses knocking down?
Landing on someone with all your weight might have the effect of many penalties during a gave as one can not easily alter physics when they are in the air. Also, a person might try to get underneath another to get a penalty called. What happens when a person "strives" to cradle another player but only ends up landing on him? Would this be a penalty?
The last one would be easier to enforce. You can call something on a whipping motion if you better define it.
Not sure that would make a difference. A player would figure out another violent way to take another player down, but it would take care of any hitting of the feet or leg with a whipping motion. Some of that might happen unintentionally and would cause a penalty, but I think that one would work.
So if you passed these rules (the parts that could be interpreted and enforced), are you satisfied that NFL players will no longer try to hurt each other in the course of a game, or do you think you are trying to plug holes in the dike with a limited number of fingers?
Originally Posted by
KenMasters @bearsinhouston
1) Suh put his right arm on the left side of Cutler's neck
2) Suh was pulling Cutler's left arm
3) Suh Tripped Cutler (illegal)
4) Suh transferred his entire body weight across Cutler's neck.
That move was meant to permanently injure someone.
Here is how I would define it:
"A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a
passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down"
"a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on
top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap
up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms."
"There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to:
striking an opponent anywhere with the foot or any part of the leg with a whipping motion"
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10-24-2012, 03:49 PM #108
Actually, that is one thing no one commented upon. WHen I saw the hit the first time, I was wondering if Suh intentionally drove his knee into Cutlers side. He may have. But once again, do you create a rule that says you can't hit any player with your knee? How many times does that happen during the course of football? How many penalties would happen?
I think the NFL officials are in the best position to know when something needs to be added to restricted activities. I don't see anything happening out of this Cutler sack.
Originally Posted by
The Benjamin Jay Cutler thinks Suh hit was clean
Posted by Josh Alper on October 23, 2012, 2:57 PM EDT
AP
The NFL decided not to fine Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh for his hit on Bears quarterback Jay Cutler during Monday night’s game.
Cutler has no problem with that decision, even though he was forced out of the game briefly and left with injured ribs as a result of the hit. During an interview with WMVP in Chicago, Cutler said that he doesn’t anticipate having any issue getting ready in time to face the Panthers and that he didn’t find anything wrong with Suh’s play.
It was a tough hit and he caught me just right. It was an awkward fall more than anything. I still think it was clean and he is a good player,” Cutler said, via Vaughn McClure of the Chicago Tribune. “I knew it was my ribs and it wasn’t my shoulder or head or anything like that. His knee and the ball got caught in my ribs. … I knew on my way down it wasn’t going to be good.”
Cutler’s view differs from the one wide receiver Brandon Marshall expressed after the game, but there shouldn’t be too much more fuel left in this fire now that the NFL and Cutler have said that there’s nothing more to see here.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...clean-as-well/
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10-24-2012, 04:04 PM #109 Originally Posted by
The Benjamin Nough said
Originally Posted by The Benjamin 
The NFL decided not to fine Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh for his hit on Bears quarterback Jay Cutler during Monday night’s game.
Cutler’s view differs from the one wide receiver Brandon Marshall expressed after the game, but there shouldn’t be too much more fuel left in this fire now that the NFL and Cutler have said that there’s nothing more to see here.
Deciding not to fine him and whether or not the way Suh went about it and whether or not it was a little "over the top" are two completely different things Benji. It just about the same as a play not being over turned on replay because there wasn't enough evidence to overrule it.
No one said it was an "illegal hit" so no one is gonna stretch that into something else in public including Jay Cutler. As much of a microscope as he's under why would he encourage even more media attention by arguing that it was a "dirty hit". Then the "he's a whiny little bitch" just starts all over again doesn't it. Is that what you want?
If I had to guess I'd probably say yes since that's the side you're on regarding him anyway. It's not shocking to see how psychological projection plays into this where you're concerned anyway.
The same thing is likely to be the case with Pep and Urlacher and Briggs or Lovie and anyone else involved. It's over. In the past. Finite. There's a new game to prep for and it's a short week so why stay embroiled in that controversy all week long and you know that's exactly what the press was hoping for so they all made it a non-issue. All except for Marshall who I'm sure speaks for quite a few of them so they don't have to. Better one guy than the whole team.
Besides they'll get another shot at Suh again this year and in case you didn't notice Stafford's head got buried pretty good after that take down on the pick he threw at the end. Do you think he just pushed his own face into the turf hard enough to come up with a beard full of Soldier Field on his grill.
This is the "big boys" league and they have their own ways of taking care of business. I don't give a rip what they said in public. They handled it internally the way it's usually done. So stop hanging on every word that Cutler, or other players, or your friends tell you and using that as some kind of evidence that it's FACT. It's not.
Even the announcers and sportswriter have taken to calling it a "vicious hit". I don't know which dictionary you use to define words but in mine there's quite a difference between how the word "clean", "dirty" and "vicious" are defined.
So was it a legal hit? Yes. But was it a clean hit? Probably not. Was it somewhat dirty, unquestionably vicious and intended to injure Cutler? Yeah I'd say it was. Does Ndamukong Suh play the game any differently than that?
Benji, once you follow the trail of logic you may be able to see it differently but you'd rather hang your hat on what others say even though you have no idea whatsoever what they really think about it. Well guys like KM and I are telling you first hand what we actually think about it. That's better than you're getting elsewhere and although you may still want to use your logic and disagree maybe you should at least respect ours.
Last edited by soulman; 10-24-2012 at 04:06 PM.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. 
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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10-24-2012, 04:09 PM #110
fair enough Soul (for the record, I do not call Cutler soft or think that he is a whiny bitch so please do not put words in my mouth)
But, answer this. Does vicious mean dirty? If not, then Marshall is still the only person publicly saying that it was dirty. Maybe he should have either taken the "company line" or kept his mouth shut
For the record, I respect both your opinions, even if I do disagree with them.
Last edited by The Benjamin; 10-24-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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