Thread: what we learned

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

Kellen Davis is not that good soul, he's a big bastard and that makes him dangerous in the red zone. Other than that he isn't a threat, something he's proven time and time again. Use people in positions thy are good at, same applies to Hester and Tice. Tice is an amazing OL coach, let him stay at that level. Hester is an amzing returner, let him return kicks.

Tice has been a disaster as OC, he's not going to progress or develop!

I don't agree with that assessment of K.Davis or Tice. Too early to give up on either of them. Let's just see how the season unfolds moving forward. You may be right Midway, but I hope you are wrong on this. I'm more excited about this team than I've been about a Bears team in several years.

There's a ton of talent - defense, special teams & the best offensive talent I can remember in a long long time. We're 6-1, and probably will be 7-1 this weekend. The team must be doing something right. Even if we'd lose another 2 or 3 games, we'd still end up at 13-3 or 12-4, going into the playoffs. I would be a mighty happy camper going into the playoffs with that kind of team and record.

p.s. Regarding K.Davis. I've watched him extensively these past few years at training camp. As a receiver he's the real deal. He's a machine. I've sat on that grassy hill overlooking the main practice field and watched him make incredible catches. All he needs is for the team to USE him. That's all. He can't catch what isn't thrown to him.

Originally Posted by soulman

Let's see what happens. Every time he did this when Martz was running the offense he went right back to ignoring him as if the score endangered proving his offensive theories about the job of TEs wrong.

Davis is a massive red zone threat over the middle on a throw like that yet how often to we use it. Even if it's only a decoy move it takes three guys to cover him down there and it will get somebody else open. Somebody (that somebody being Tice of course) needs to explain to me why we always seem to make the easy so difficult.

Davis catches a TD pass in one out of four catches and he's almost impossible to bring down with just one guy but that was the first time in the game we threw to him. Instead we throw to Speath on a key third down. Spaeth has hands of stone and we all know that so what am I missing?

Same with the running game. Forte has killed these guy almost every time he's played them. Two years ago he virtually beat them singlehandedly because Todd Collins couldn't complete a pass that wasn't a hand off. So how many times does he run Forte! Fifteen right and I think five of those were on that first drive. Bush gets four carries all game long and we run less than 20 times!!!!

It's like somebody gave Tice an XBox Madden game and he wants to explore it. I got called out yesterday for criticizing Lovie's coaching but I meant what I said. This is his team, all of it offense and defense, and he's the one whose ultimately responsible for how they play. It's time for him to have a sit down with Tice just as he did with Martz and get his game plans and play calling squared up with the talent he has.

If the line could pass protect we'd be rolling up 30 points a game without breathing hard, Cutler IS that good, but they can't. So run the damn ball until they stop it. Make them commit to stopping the run first before you abandon in it Mike! You keep saying you're gonna do that yet with each passing game you abandon it earlier and your offense gets worse! Lovie is the one who needs to put a stop to this.

And I don't care how good Devin Hester practices he simply doesn't belong on the field as a starter once the game starts. How much longer does this have to go on before you believe it. His route running skills and his ability to make the key catch just isn't good enough for a #2 role. That belongs to Bennett and Sanz right now so start playing them and maybe the passing game will improve provided you call the right pass plays.

I'm totally flabbergasted by the way Tice approaches these games and how little change there has been since the Packer game. We've had one good offensive showing against Indy and since then it's been going downhill yet every week it's the same old thing. Come out throwing and get Cutler sacked. It's really even beyond stupid. It borders on complete and total ignorance and the same kind of arrogance and failure to adjust that we saw under Martz.

God Damn It but I'm tired of seeing him shoot his own offense in the foot every week!

I agree w/all this

btw, Cutlers decision making is painfull at times; did anyone else notice that not only were there 2 DB's on Marshal on that failed bomb; but a DB over the middle also? 3 DB's w/in 10 yards(2 w/in a few feet) of Marshal, and no one else was open to get the ball to? Let's do a real quick count, there are 11 players on D, at 4 rushing Cutty, and 3 on Marshal, that's 7; that leaves 4 to cover the rest of the field. Seems to me that means(if no one else was double covered) on the RB and 2 other WR's(if the TE stayed in), telling me there wasn't a better play there? Something pointed out on the score/espn has been Cutlers reluctance to throw the ball before the WR breaks, other then Marshal; I think that is a huge indication of how Cutler doesn't trust his other WR's yet...and that is going to limit the passing game b/c that is why he is holding the ball to long, and that is what is creating a lot of sacks/pressure and creating some of the TO's.

Again, I didn't watch this game really closely, I saw the drop for Hester, it seemed to me though, like this was his first really bad game in the last 4 weeks. And he only got targetted 3 times. Last week he was okay, not great, the 2 weeks before that he had some big plays at big times though. I'd wouldn't be calling for his head quite yet. But I agree he shouldn't be starting...well at least once Alshon gets back.

Anyone else notice that Forte is running a lot better between the tackles? Is that b/c of the OG's, or is it because he's gotten to watch what Bush does? Or maybe both?

I learned that the old adage that "on any given sunday..." is still true.

I learned that no one knows whether Cutler audibled, or didn't on the Cutler interception in the first half. And that we don't know if everyone did what they were supposed to do on the play (called or audibled).

I also learned that apparently Martz invented the TE pass in the Red Zone play. That is probably why Jackie Smith wasn't successful catching his Superbowl endzone pass for the Cowboys way back in the 70's.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

With us being 6-1, we're at a great point in the season for the coaching staff to evaluate the offense and make some decisions moving forward. They've had seven games to get a good feel for what works and what doesn't work with this year's players. I agree, Soul, that Lovie needs to talk with Tice on what he wants taken out of the playbook for this year - because it doesn't work, and is not going to work this year.

Tice needs to understand the strengths and limitations of his personnel, moving forward with our season.

The good thing is that he has had ample opportunity to evaluate this offense and still be 6-1. In addition to that, it appears there's a lot this offense can do, even with the limitations of the offensive line. It's all fixable at this point. That's pretty cool IMHO. In fact, I think we'll see some real firepower this 2nd half of the season by the offense. The run game can DEFINITELY go to another level. It's there for the taking.

I look for this team to be very formidable by the playoffs. Yes, we're probably going to lose 3 or 4 games before the playoffs begin. But that means we will be 12-4 or even 11-5 for the season. I don't know about the others, but I'd be mighty pleased with that. Then we can begin the 2nd season. The one that matters. At that point, this team will have had 16 games to get the offense hitting on all cylinders.

Tice will be fine. Cutler will be fine. The WR corps will be fine. I even believe the oline will be fine if Tice will call plays within its ability. Even yesterday I saw a lot of good plays, and a handful of bad plays (Cutler and Tice have to take the blame for some of those sacks IMHO). One really cool thing is that this oline can block exceptionally well, if Tice calls a good game. The last few games I've seen some of the best run blocking by a Bears oline in recent years (coupled with some breakdowns too). But there is a lot to be hopeful about.

But I do agree Lovie needs that talk with Tice to reign him in. I think it's all going to be fine, and we'll have a great year.

Maybe I'm actually from Missouri so my response is "Show Me". When it happens I'll give credit to it but excuse me if I don't buy options on Tice's offense rising to the occasion just yet. I'm a fundamental investor not a speculator and right now the fundamentals aren't improving and earnings (scoring) are down.

If Fantasy Football was played with entire offensive units like it is defensive units I would not be playing the Bears offense just yet if I wanted to win.

Originally Posted by soulman

Maybe I'm actually from Missouri so my response is "Show Me". When it happens I'll give credit to it but excuse me if I don't buy options on Tice's offense rising to the occasion just yet. I'm a fundamental investor not a speculator and right now the fundamentals aren't improving and earnings (scoring) are down.

If Fantasy Football was played with entire offensive units like it is defensive units I would not be playing the Bears offense just yet if I wanted to win.

I have to agree with you there

I'll bet we have a lot of ups and downs before this season is over. I'm just hoping we end up on a high note. But I agree. The jury is still out on the team. So far, I like this bunch though. Keep in mind though, that as a Bears fan, I really have no clue what a "real" offense looks like

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

Kellen Davis is not that good soul, he's a big bastard and that makes him dangerous in the red zone. Other than that he isn't a threat, something he's proven time and time again. Use people in positions thy are good at, same applies to Hester and Tice. Tice is an amazing OL coach, let him stay at that level. Hester is an amzing returner, let him return kicks.

Tice has been a disaster as OC, he's not going to progress or develop!

I'm sad to say i'm agreeing with you on every point, lol. With that said, Tice called a stupid F'n game, and I got called out in the chat for freaking out over a play action on the first play of the game. If I were the defensive coordinator, I'd go full on blitz, because as someone else noticed, that's been our first call in 3 of our games. Our RB tandem is the best in the league. Bush isn't going to make the running game by himself, but here's the secret: have Forte wear that defense out, and this is where you're gonna see Bush moving the piles like crazy. Tice needs to seriously ditch Hester as a viable offensive weapon. It's JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Hester is fast, and he can avoid defenders, but he's not a good route runner. I hope they bury Hester in the depth chart; even tho I'm a sanz homer, I think it can be clearly said that Sanz has more of a reason to be running routes.

Tice is using the wrong personnel and calling some stupid plays. I forgot if it was Herm Edwards, but I remember a coach a few years back had an assistant that just kept an eye on the Running/Passing playcalling, to try to balance it out. I love Jay as our QB, but I'm sorry, it may be him, it may be our o-line, or our receivers, but he does not need to be passing on 60% of our offensive possessions. At least not with our RB's being as good as they are. Tice, if you're going to use Davis, try to use him in the end zone, as a jump ball guy. I started to turn towards thinking he's good early in the year, but he simply is not that good. The best thing about him is that he's athletic, and makes a hell of a red zone target.