No Excuses Like "We Won Didn't We"; The Offense is Just Plain Bad.......

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Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

Guys I know my last post in this thread was kind of a rant, but i think my point about his montra is true. If you are preaching "get better at something each week / work on your craft" and we look as fans and we don't see that, then he isnt getting the job done. Not on any level. Nothing to do with being a rookie (which he is not, idk where we all got that idea).

Also he is forcing the ball to Marshall on certain plays. That int play he was the only receiver, it was a single receiver play, forced to Marshall in triple coverage.

Here is another thing I don't get: you guys are blaming Cutler this year (or at least giving him some responsibility) and last year everything was because Martz was an idiot. I don't get it, Tice is 10x worse in my mind and people are so reluctant to blame him for anything.

Those are valid points. I figure Tice is in his 1st season as OC, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I may end up ranting about him too, if he doesn't get better. But for know I'm just in a "wait and see" mode. And while Tice is not a rookie in the NFL, he (in my book) is a green rookie in his current role (and with all the changes since last season ended).

Let's just see how the rest of the season plays out. If we don't get better, then I'll be ranting too :smile:

We must be low on Tice Pixie dust because I recall last year people getting boners on making Tice OC. Martz may have his flaws but he never had any support for the offense over his time with the bears. Had Martz had Marshal, Jefferys, Bush and Forte along with bennett I believe the offense would be clicking. One more thing the Packers who are stacked at tallent on offense except at RB are not tearing up every week. Sundays game as boring as the bears game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

I hate to belabor your example and I know the exact numbers are just being used to illustrate your point, and you do have a point. But we can't gash them in the opening drive like that and then turn around and throw the ball 45 times. We were never down by that much. Why get away from the run?

Here's the first drive...

1-10-CHI 26 (11:55) 6-J.Cutler sacked at CHI 19 for -7 yards (76-G.Hardy). PENALTY on CAR-95-C.Johnson, Illegal Use of Hands, 7 yards, enforced at CHI 19.
1-10-CHI 26 (11:36) 22-M.Forte right end to CHI 32 for 6 yards (59-L.Kuechly).
2-4-CHI 32 (10:53) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 15-B.Marshall to CHI 41 for 9 yards (41-C.Munnerlyn).
1-10-CHI 41 (10:19) 22-M.Forte right end to 50 for 9 yards (43-H.Nakamura).
2-1- (9:49) 6-J.Cutler pass deep middle intended for 15-B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by 24-J.Norman at CAR 3. 24-J.Norman to CAR 5 for 2 yards (15-B.Marshall).

Like I said, the INT was a good play-call, Marshall was behind the coverage and Cutler just under threw the ball a bit. It's 2nd and 1, you take a shot, because you have great odds of converting on 3rd and 1.

Additionally, Forte was 4-44-1 on the first two drives... meaning that he was 11-26 over the remainder of the game (he was 8-61-1 in the first half, then he gained 9 yards on 7 carries in the second half). This is why I'm guessing that Tice went away from the run. Again, Game Theory and Game Philosophy is more important than you believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlock

Here's the first drive...

1-10-CHI 26 (11:55) 6-J.Cutler sacked at CHI 19 for -7 yards (76-G.Hardy). PENALTY on CAR-95-C.Johnson, Illegal Use of Hands, 7 yards, enforced at CHI 19.
1-10-CHI 26 (11:36) 22-M.Forte right end to CHI 32 for 6 yards (59-L.Kuechly).
2-4-CHI 32 (10:53) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 15-B.Marshall to CHI 41 for 9 yards (41-C.Munnerlyn).
1-10-CHI 41 (10:19) 22-M.Forte right end to 50 for 9 yards (43-H.Nakamura).
2-1- (9:49) 6-J.Cutler pass deep middle intended for 15-B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by 24-J.Norman at CAR 3. 24-J.Norman to CAR 5 for 2 yards (15-B.Marshall).

Like I said, the INT was a good play-call, Marshall was behind the coverage and Cutler just under threw the ball a bit. It's 2nd and 1, you take a shot, because you have great odds of converting on 3rd and 1.

Additionally, Forte was 4-44-1 on the first two drives... meaning that he was 11-26 over the remainder of the game (he was 8-61-1 in the first half, then he gained 9 yards on 7 carries in the second half). This is why I'm guessing that Tice went away from the run. Again, Game Theory and Game Philosophy is more important than you believe.

I see what you're saying, but I really don't agree. That was a risky pass in the wind conditions. Very risky if you're trying to limit turnovers.

Jay was on his own 40 when he released that pass 60 yards in the air. The wind was really gusting and a 60 yard pass into tight TRIPLE coverage was not the best idea (from where I was sitting I could see the ball moving, pushed laterally by the wind after it left Jays hand). It was basically a "Hail Mary" type of pass. We didn't need to do that at that point in the game. Why not keep moving the ball with high percentage plays that were working - and score?

That ball had zero chance of being caught by Marshall. It had a significant chance of being a turnover. Why call that play under those conditions, that early in the game? These are the little things that hurt our offense. Instead of being up 7-0 at that point, we give them an easy interception. A gimmee.

On a side note, the blocking on that first score by Forte was a thing of beauty. If you have the game recorded, it's at 4:30 of the first quarter. If they could run block like that all the time, it would be an epic year for Forte.

Cutler probably should have thrown the pass sooner, but he's a risk taker and has ultimate confidence in his arm. Regardless of the details though, I still say it was a good play-call, Marshall beat all 3 of the defenders... if Cutler leads him on the route (i.e. throws sooner but to the same spot) or throws a better ball, it's a TD, one that sets the tone for the game. It was a good play-call, but poor execution.

As for the triple coverage thing... they caught the safety cheating up and Marshall burned him by 5+ yards. The other safety made a good play, but on a better throw, he would have been a complete non-factor. At the time of the release, it was Marshall vs Norman and Marshall had a step on him... I'm not sure about you, but I'm ok with Cutler taking that risk. So technically speaking, it was only double coverage and one of the defenders was beat by a good 5 yards. The third defender merely made a good play, he wasn't actually covering Marshall though, he was playing the ball.

Marshall did have a chance to catch that pass btw, Norman made a hell of a play on the ball... it would have hit Marshall in the hands if Norman doesn't go up and pick it off... maybe #43 gets there in time to break it up if Norman misses it, but maybe he doesn't. Like I said earlier, I'm ok with Cutler taking that shot, it was basically Marshall vs Norman and a little bit better of a ball probably ends up being a TD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlock

Cutler probably should have thrown the pass sooner, but he's a risk taker and has ultimate confidence in his arm. Regardless of the details though, I still say it was a good play-call, Marshall beat all 3 of the defenders... if Cutler leads him on the route (i.e. throws sooner but to the same spot) or throws a better ball, it's a TD, one that sets the tone for the game. It was a good play-call, but poor execution.

As for the triple coverage thing... they caught the safety cheating up and Marshall burned him by 5+ yards. The other safety made a good play, but on a better throw, he would have been a complete non-factor. At the time of the release, it was Marshall vs Norman and Marshall had a step on him... I'm not sure about you, but I'm ok with Cutler taking that risk. So technically speaking, it was only double coverage and one of the defenders was beat by a good 5 yards. The third defender merely made a good play, he wasn't actually covering Marshall though, he was playing the ball.

Marshall did have a chance to catch that pass btw, Norman made a hell of a play on the ball... it would have hit Marshall in the hands if Norman doesn't go up and pick it off... maybe #43 gets there in time to break it up if Norman misses it, but maybe he doesn't. Like I said earlier, I'm ok with Cutler taking that shot, it was basically Marshall vs Norman and a little bit better of a ball probably ends up being a TD.

We can agree to disagree on this one. I saw it differently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlock

Here's the first drive...

1-10-CHI 26 (11:55) 6-J.Cutler sacked at CHI 19 for -7 yards (76-G.Hardy). PENALTY on CAR-95-C.Johnson, Illegal Use of Hands, 7 yards, enforced at CHI 19.
1-10-CHI 26 (11:36) 22-M.Forte right end to CHI 32 for 6 yards (59-L.Kuechly).
2-4-CHI 32 (10:53) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 15-B.Marshall to CHI 41 for 9 yards (41-C.Munnerlyn).
1-10-CHI 41 (10:19) 22-M.Forte right end to 50 for 9 yards (43-H.Nakamura).
2-1- (9:49) 6-J.Cutler pass deep middle intended for 15-B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by 24-J.Norman at CAR 3. 24-J.Norman to CAR 5 for 2 yards (15-B.Marshall).

Like I said, the INT was a good play-call, Marshall was behind the coverage and Cutler just under threw the ball a bit. It's 2nd and 1, you take a shot, because you have great odds of converting on 3rd and 1.

Additionally, Forte was 4-44-1 on the first two drives... meaning that he was 11-26 over the remainder of the game (he was 8-61-1 in the first half, then he gained 9 yards on 7 carries in the second half). This is why I'm guessing that Tice went away from the run. Again, Game Theory and Game Philosophy is more important than you believe.

Ya I'm with JABF, I see it differently.

In my mind a good play call is, for example: Last year against KC when we are on the goal line and Hanie lobs a pass to a wide-open (and I mean there is literally no one covering him) Marion Barber in the end zone. That is putting your guys in the best possible position to have success, it doesn't get any easier than that.

The Marshall/Cutler play we are discussing may not have been the worst call in the world but it certainly wasn't good and didn't put anyone in the position to be successful.

I think Forte went 11-26 because the timing and type of runs being called were terrible. But thats just my opinion. Fact is 11-26 is real bad, I don't know about you guys but I'm tired of this offense struggling and I'm tired of beating up on my own team.

Dear Chicago Bears Offense,

Please play better so we can cheer for you instead of boo you. Can you tell Mike Tice to get his head out of his ass please? Maybe it would help if he took off those fake glasses he now wears to look smart, they aren't fooling anyone. Also, why is Jay Cutler such a dick sometimes? Did we hurt his feelings? If so we are very sorry. I will have my girlfriend bake him a sugar-free cake if that would make him feel better, let me know.

Best regards,
XxMidwayMonstersxX and the rest of the fans

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlock

Cutler probably should have thrown the pass sooner, but he's a risk taker and has ultimate confidence in his arm. Regardless of the details though, I still say it was a good play-call, Marshall beat all 3 of the defenders... if Cutler leads him on the route (i.e. throws sooner but to the same spot) or throws a better ball, it's a TD, one that sets the tone for the game. It was a good play-call, but poor execution. (At the very least I'd say the last statement is spot on. Marshall got behind the coverage but the ball was late getting there and under thrown. If not we'd be crowing about what a great call is was instead of putting it down. Three to fours yards farther and it's a TD pass)

As for the triple coverage thing... they caught the safety cheating up and Marshall burned him by 5+ yards. The other safety made a good play, but on a better throw, he would have been a complete non-factor. At the time of the release, it was Marshall vs Norman and Marshall had a step on him... I'm not sure about you, but I'm ok with Cutler taking that risk. So technically speaking, it was only double coverage and one of the defenders was beat by a good 5 yards. The third defender merely made a good play, he wasn't actually covering Marshall though, he was playing the ball. (Also true if anyone takes the time to actually go back and look at the play. One defender is very late in arriving and if the ball wasn't under thrown he's a non-factor)

Marshall did have a chance to catch that pass btw, Norman made a hell of a play on the ball... it would have hit Marshall in the hands if Norman doesn't go up and pick it off... maybe #43 gets there in time to break it up if Norman misses it, but maybe he doesn't. Like I said earlier, I'm ok with Cutler taking that shot, it was basically Marshall vs Norman and a little bit better of a ball probably ends up being a TD. (Yep it was a good defensive play and all made possible because the ball was slightly under thrown)

On another day that might have been six and I have no problem with them taking some shits down field off play action when they get a look they like. Could that play have waited? Maybe, but when? Didn't they have Marshall in the slot on that play? That doesn't happen often and they liked the matchup so they took a shot. Some days it works but that day it didn't.

I'm a lot more concerned about the other parts of the passing game than that one. Things like the number of passes per game, starting Hester in place of Bennett, not playing Sanz at all, and not finding more use for Davis on seam routes and more often in the red zone. Say what you will but the guy scores points when you throw to him and that's still the objective of the game isn't it?

There are other factors that make far more difference than just this one play. We took a chance and might have had six but even in the worst case scenario it was as good as a punt that pinned them down deep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

Dear Chicago Bears Offense,

Please play better so we can cheer for you instead of boo you. Can you tell Mike Tice to get his head out of his ass please? Maybe it would help if he took off those fake glasses he now wears to look smart, they aren't fooling anyone. Also, why is Jay Cutler such a dick sometimes? Did we hurt his feelings? If so we are very sorry. I will have my girlfriend bake him a sugar-free cake if that would make him feel better, let me know.

Best regards,
XxMidwayMonstersxX and the rest of the fans

Jay sends his regards and asks the same question about you. :poke::drinking61:

Maybe when you're record is 23-9 since 2010 and you've just won 11 out of your last 12 starts and have the best W/L percentage in the NFL of late we should just let him be as much of a dick as he wants to be. :lol-027:

I'll wouldn't trade those wins off for "Little Suzy Cream Cheese" and a whole pack of Baptist Deacons for a QB but you can if you like. Try becoming a KC Chiefs fan. I hear Sam Cassell is a nice guy. :ohmygod: