2012 vs 1985/1986 defense
I wasn't around the time where we won the SB, but I've read about this amazing defense and heard about it aswell..
Now my question is; Is this years defense better than what we won the SB with/the season after the SB win?
We have great rotation at the front 4, we can put presure with just those 4 guys.
We can FF and INT
We can stop the running game
We can shut down elite WR's
If the defense keeps the pace up and might even win the SB would you consider it better?
Better? Yes, no, maybe...Both are very, very, very good...
However, in my mind, there was something very special about the 85 Defense...difference eras, changing rules and all that, but today's D is all about takeaways and frustrating and pissing off the opposing Offense...the 85 D was all about beating the ever loving shit out of anyone who wasn't wearing Navy and Orange, even more so if you played QB....A QB today going up us is probably worried about throwing a few picks; a QB going against the 85 Bears was worried about surviving... I agree with BU and others, comparisons are pointless and probably bit counterproductive....anyone compared to the 85 D is going to come up short imho...
Reductio ad absurdum
...it's how we roll...
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The 85 D was a perfect storm of tactical advantage and HOF'ers. It instilled fear, it demoralized, and laid the big hit. As Wolf said between era's hard to compare.
Now compare this D to other modern eras and it's absolutely great.
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win your still messed up.
Restore the roar!
It is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both great defenses, but night-and-day different. As Wolfman points out, the era's are so different too.
Trestman - Kromer - Tucker - DeCamillis
I'm looking forward to seeing these guys coach. Hope they're good.
I don't mind comparrisons so much, as long as it is looked at in terms of era's. Meaning, the 85 defense was dominant in it's time (different rules, etc. as you mentioned), Is the current defense as dominant in it's time?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
It's funny, just as I read this, NFLN was asking if the current bears defense is just as dominant as the 2000 Ravens defense.
I think the answer is yes, they are just as dominant, but it's like you mention, in two completely different ways. The current defense is working against a pass happy league. Therefore, they are causing a shit ton of fumbles and interceptions, scoring points on picks, shutting down top receivers, etc. They aren't as dominant against the run game, which is a concern of mine against sanfran. ***(I think we actually top them in receivers, defense and run game, but if playcalling gets a little rough this could end up being a loss)***
Either way, I grew up loving the bears defense. So I've always had a crush on defensive teams. I love that the current bears team is doing it in the same way the 85 bears did. Dominant defense.
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Yeah I gotta agree with Wolf on this. They are totally different style defenses playing in different eras with much different rules. The '85 Bears defense couldn't play today the way they played in '85. They'd give up 150 yards in penalties a game.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
This defense put on pressure and plays zone coverage to get turn overs. The '85 Bears played to destroy offenses. Blow them up and demoralize them. They punished teams and QBs in particular. They didn't play to get turnovers like this defense does but by virtue of the way they played they got them anyway. Just not as many.
Lovie plays a low risk bend but don't break defense that allows team to march down the field little bit at a time. In his mind the opponent will eventually make a mistake and give the ball up or the defense tightens on a short field where there's little danger of a big play and they stop the drive.
Buddy Ryan's theory of stopping the pass was to put a time clock and the QB, rush as many guys from as many directions as he could invent, and play man to man with the WRs. His theory was that by not giving a QB time his receivers wouldn't get open before you sacked him or forced a bad throw. That worked well and with Singletary at MLB and DTs like McMichael, Hampton, and Perry you couldn't run on them either.
Like Wolf says Lovie's defense annoys the shit out of teams and frustrates them whereas Buddy Ryan's defense annihilated teams. That was a search and destroy defense.
Last edited by soulman; 11-05-2012 at 07:31 PM.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
Want to add this to this thread. Not only were the 85 bears absolutely dominant on defense, they had an offense that was pretty good. A much different scenerio than the 2000 Ravens. Their offense sucked. Lets compare their seasons to this point.
1: Tampa Bay W 38-28
2: New England W 20–7
3: Minnesota W 33-24
4: Redskins W 45-10
5: Tampa Bay W 27-19
6: San Fran W 26-10
7: GreenBay W 23-7
8: Minnesota W 27-9
1: Indianapolis W 41-21
2: Green Bay L 23-10
3: St. Louis W 23-6
4: Dallas W 34-18
5: Jacksonville W 41-3
7: Detroit W 13-7
8: Carolina W 23-22
9: Titans W 51-20
Without looking at offense/defense scores, it's fairly close. The only close game we've had is the Carolina game. We were beaten by GB, but keep in mind that the 85 bears were beaten by Miami later in the season.
As the eternal optimist, if we win out, we will be just as dominant as the 85 bears.
The 85 D was special. They didn't have to rotate in to dominate. And if the other teams tried to rotate it didn't matter. Whoever got put in front of them got dominated. They just beat up the others guys week in and week out. No one wanted to play them. They were feared and there was no question that they were the best most dominant D of the time. Today you can ask who is the best D and many will say Chicago, some might say the Giants, some might even say the Texans.
There was no discussion who was the best defense in 85. Until that same atmosphere and attitude amongst NFL fans prevails once again, you still can't compare the two. They were virtually ALL beasts on that line and in the secondary. We have great CBs but no where near the S talent nor even the DL. Our DL is great, but the 85 line was more than great.
I was around for the '85 team. It is apples and oranges because of the era but also the style. 85 was an attack defense. Teams, especially quarterbacks, were afraid to play play them. That was IMHO the best linebacker corp to ever step on the field. The line was unparalleled with Perry and McMicheal locking up the middle only to have Dent and Hampton requiring double teams to stop them from destroying the QB. 2012's D is an attack the ball squad lead by Tillman. Scoring on defense is deflating to other teams. This group also seams to be more athletic than 85 which is an era thing since the league is faster and faster every year.
We're only half way home and hope this D can carry us into the post season the way the 85 team did.
Originally Posted by bearsinhouston
And to me this is where the comparison starts to get really dicey and potentially problematic...at the individual level...
Trying to take in the difference eras thing and all that, I will boldly, and perhaps controversially, state that there probably isn't a single 2012 Bear who could replace his 1985 counterpart...
2012 Urlacher over 1985 Singletary...no way...
2012 Peppers over 1985 Dent...not a chance...
The list would go right down the line imho...
The only player on the 2012 team that might have a spot on the 85 starting roster is Peanut...maybe Briggs, but even that seems like a big maybe...
Reductio ad absurdum
...it's how we roll...