Thread: Would smaller/faster/quicker OT's be better?

Not sure why this thread was closed, but it's open now.

I just figure it's so difficult to get a guy Webb's size, who is also quick enough to handle the great edge rushers we face most games now. In my simple pea brain, I got if figured you either go with a slower/bigger LT, or you go with a quicker/agile smaller LT. And, I'm not saying a small guy, but just not as mamouth as some of the LT's you now see.

Getting an aircraft carrier size guy who is also cat-quick is about like trying to find a unicorn. And if you DO find one, you're going to pay franchise QB money (or nearly so) to keep him.

Anyway, that's why I started this thread. I wondered what all you "smart guys" thought about it

Originally Posted by BearStuff

Not sure why this thread was closed, but it's open now.

I wondered that myself. Somebody's elbow must have hit the wrong button.

Smaller quicker OTs? Hmmmmmm

I'm not sure size has all that much to do with it. Webb is as big as a house but we're told he's very athletic which to me means he is fairly quick. I think where he's not quick has more to do with the firing off of his brain synapses than it does firing out of his stance physically. Being "cat quick" a second too late still gets you beat.

Carimi probably doesn't have all of the quickness a great LT needs and in today's game there are a lot of very good pass rushers he's going up against who play LDE too. But in his case I don't believe he lacks the instincts and intelligence needed to improve. Very few guys who get drafted to play OT in the NFL don't struggle with their pass blocking to begin with and his run blocking in sound so it's not like he's a bust. He's still learning the game.

I hear even Kalil is getting beat some in Minny and Reiff is having his problems at RT just the same as Carimi is. It's not like we missed the boat somewhere here. Rookie lineman need time to develop their skills at this level. There are just more good pass rushers than there are great pass blockers. It is what it is.

If we look at the prototype HOF or All Pro OTs over the past decade or so we see that virtually all of them were pretty big guys and that hasn't changed much with the current crop either;

Orlando Pace: 6'7"/325lbs
Walter Jones: 6'5"/325lbs
Jonathan Ogden: 6'9"/345lbs
Joe Thomas: 6'6"/312lbs
Jake Long: 6'7"/319lbs
Michael Oher: 6'4"/315lbs
Duane Brown: 6'4"/320lbs
Joe Staley: 6'5"/315lbs
Michael Roos: 6'7"/320
Jermon Bushrod: 6'5"/315lbs
Ryan Clady: 6'6"/315lbs

So you could probably say that the average OT goes about 6'6" and weighs about 320lbs. Carimi is right there at 6'7"/316lbs, Scott is too at 6'6"/318lbs and Webb is only slightly bigger at 6'7"/333lbs. The little guy on the PS is James Brown at 6'4"/306lbs and I'm betting he'll be at least 10lbs heavier by next year. Cory Brandon is 6'7"/324lbs.

To me it looks like our guys are about average size in comparison so I don't think it's their size that matters. If we were to target any one of the top potential 2013 FA LTs (Long, Clady or Bushrod) we'd be getting a guy pretty similar in size to someone we already have.

I think it's all about technique and wingspan. That and the footwork and strength needed to play outside and control your guy. Once Webb or Carimi get their hands on a guy they win so all you can do is keep working on their technique so they can do it more consistently. I think that's what sets the guys on this list apart. Not necessarily their size or lack of it.

Look at Ogden and the guy who replaced him. Oher is 5" shorter and 30lbs lighter yet they both seemed to do a pretty good job as LTs. My guess is anyone from 6'4" to 6'7" and 315lbs to 325lbs fits as a prototype OT these days.

A bit smaller and quicker I could see. If Webb can get his hands on someone he's actually ok. Trouble w/him is I don't see any improved hand technique from him. For any professional he's got to have an arsenal of skills not just a few so he can adapt on the fly not just football smarts as well.

I'm not sure size has all that much to do with it. Webb is as big as a house but we're told he's very athletic which to me means he is fairly quick. I think where he's not quick has more to do with the firing off of his brain synapses than it does firing out of his stance physically. Being "cat quick" a second too late still gets you beat.

That could be it.

I read an article a few weeks ago, that mentioned the better athletes are going to the defensive lines now, and the less-gifted athletes are left as offensive lineman (long before their NFL careers). Even if that's true, it's obviously not an absolute for every player. But when I watch offensive lines this year, I see that we're far from the only ones with Webb-level LT's. Yes, some are better. Many (to me) look no better than Webb at pass blocking and sometimes worse at run blocking.

To significantly upgrade at LT, it looks to me like it's going to take a boatload of cash. Sure, you can get a cheaper option, but then you're back to what we already have......or not significantly better, and maybe worse at run blocking.

It just seems to me that getting a BIG guy who also has the athleticism and quickness to match the edge rushers we're seeing in the NFL now, is pretty rare. And those who have one, are not going to let them go, if they can possibly prevent it. It would be almost like letting a franchise QB walk.

Originally Posted by short faced bear

A bit smaller and quicker I could see. If Webb can get his hands on someone he's actually ok. Trouble w/him is I don't see any improved hand technique from him. For any professional he's got to have an arsenal of skills not just a few so he can adapt on the fly not just football smarts as well.

Well I'd say that comes down to coaching shorty but it also comes down to having the intelligence necessary to retain the knowledge of what you're being taught and actually put it to work for you.

In our lives we've all been around people who are great "learners" but don't know enough to come out of the rain unless they read the instructions for it somewhere in a book. Those people learn but the never retain the knowledge or use their common sense to extend it without being taught.

The fact that Webb keeps making a lot of the same mistakes over and over again tells me that he's not "getting it". So far he hasn't learned to "adapt on the fly" as you say and if he just simply doesn't have that skill he'll never become a very good football player.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

That could be it.

I read an article a few weeks ago, that mentioned the better athletes are going to the defensive lines now, and the less-gifted athletes are left as offensive lineman (long before their NFL careers). Even if that's true, it's obviously not an absolute for every player. But when I watch offensive lines this year, I see that we're far from the only ones with Webb-level LT's. Yes, some are better. Many (to me) look no better than Webb at pass blocking and sometimes worse at run blocking.

To significantly upgrade at LT, it looks to me like it's going to take a boatload of cash. Sure, you can get a cheaper option, but then you're back to what we already have......or not significantly better, and maybe worse at run blocking.

It just seems to me that getting a BIG guy who also has the athleticism and quickness to match the edge rushers we're seeing in the NFL now, is pretty rare. And those who have one, are not going to let them go, if they can possibly prevent it. It would be almost like letting a franchise QB walk.

Well there you have it in a nutshell and it's what makes your second paragraph the only real quick fix we have if Webb doesn't pan out. It's no different than our failure year after year to draft a franchise level QB. We couldn't so we had to go out and buy the best one we could get our hands on and it was pricey.

I don't see the solution at LT being any different. I see this as Webb's last chance. If he's not handling it well enough and we can't find any way to re-design the offense around it then we go get they guy we need. Mike Tice may not be a great OC but he is a good line coach and if he can't make anything decent out of Webb it can't be done, period.

Carimi I'm not concerned about. He'll get there just like Louis did. It takes time and we have to be patient that's all. There was a reason why a kid with all of the supposed potential Webb has never got drafted before the 7th round. My guess is that he was deemed uncoachable and I don't think I'm that far wrong. Any other team and any other line coach would probably have tossed in the towel already.