Okay hold on. Hester dropped passes left and right? He dropped a pass, 1, the other "drop" was a bad no call PI. The last few games I can at least understand the negitivity for Hester, don't agree with it, but I understand it. But this game was in general more of a blah then a good or bad. 4 targets, 1 PI no call, 2 catches 1 drop, where is the problem? The missed first down; ya that sucked, but it's not like no other WR good bad or indifferent has ever made that same mistake. Also if Cutler doesn't jump over the LoS he has another catch and a 30+ yard run that would have put them inside the 2.
Hester stat wise, is probably right in the same range as every other average #3/4 wr in the game. But I guarantee you that those guys don't give the added benefit of field position on ST's that Hester gives. Problem w/that is that teams are not punting/kicking to Hester, per usual, so he rarely can use that athletisism, and when he does the blocking has been sub par. So best way to use that is to give him the ball a handfull of times on O each game and see if something happens. But like his ST's play, it's going to be hit or miss. 4-5 weeks ago it was hitting(when we had Jeffery), he had a real nice TD grab one game, and another real nice 1st down grab on a 3rd and long the next. Since then we lost Jeffery and it's been more of a miss(see a trend). Bank when Alshon is back, Hester on O starts hitting again.
The problem w/this game was 9 targets that the TE's(specifically 5 to Davis) got. This teams TE's should not be getting targetted more then Bennet/Hester individually or as a whole. These TE's are not worth 5 combined looks, let alone 9/10.
Bennett alone should be getting 4-6 targets, closer to the 6 range, Hester should to, but closer to the 4 range. Bennett was only targetted once, Take 4 targets away from the TE's and you have 2-3 more catches and probably 15-40 more yards, probably closer to the 40 considering how open he was.
Last edited by Riczaj01; 11-13-2012 at 08:47 PM.
Henry, I understand your concerns and your loyalty to DH. We all have justifiably fond and proud memories of him being a terror in the return game. But (and I know this is unpopular here)...
Originally Posted by Henry Burris
He clearly is nothing like he once was as a returner and the longevity for that kind of burst and novelty is short in the NFL. It is not going to "come back" and DH is living on past rep this year in that regard. Teams are still scared of him and kicking accordingly which still has netted us some short fields despite him only breaking 1 or 2 returns for substantial yardage. That won't continue indefinitely once opposing teams learn that he's no longer "un-coverable" on STs.
You're right to some extent that he hasn't been used properly on O. That's been going on for years so do you see it changing suddenly next season? Fact is, whether it was bad coaching or bad coachability, Hester has failed to add another element to his game that would extend his usefulness beyond STs alone. We see flashes of hope here and there that he's "turned a corner" as an offensive weapon but it never materializes. He remains a specialty player only and that element is in decline w/o much doubt. His deficiences as a WR are well known and I won't bother to go over them again.
I guess it could easily come down to his contract and cap implications this offseason. Pompei wrote a column discussing this a few weeks ago and I believe he stated that Hester's "hit" was not nearly as big as we thought in terms of guarantees/signing bonus that affect the salary cap going forward. I would hope Emery would be looking for a speedster return man/WR in say the 4th round or so (think TY Hilton types) since it looks to me like Hester is nearing the end of his production and Knox will not likely be back to what he used to be speed-wise, if at all.
I'm just trying to be realistic here. I had high hopes that DH would become that dynamic specialty #4 WR type player this year with all the hype we heard yet again in PS and the burden of being miscast as an X or Y liftted by adding Marshall and Jeffery. But it hasn't happened and doesn't look like it ever will. There may be a tough and unpopular decision to be made here this coming spring and summer. We will see...
No argument from me about Bennett and Davis and we will see if things improve Hester-wise when AJ gets back into the swing of things. But, I have to disagree with you on the highlighted stuff. DH drops too many easily catchable balls and fails to come up with virtually any contested passes in traffic. He overtly expects to get a defensive PI call practically every time he's covered which pretty much guarantees that he isn't going to get many calls that even may be deserved. He can't break a tackle for shit either which means he's only a "weapon" when Cutty can get him the ball with plenty of space unmolested to use his elusiveness. He had a nice gain on a WR screen vs. Detroit and would have had a dynamite play on that LoS violation call vs. Houston, but the latter was a broken play (Cutty was scrambling and obviously intended to run himself until he recognized the opportunity with Hester a fraction too late--for both the penalty call and the injury). How the hell do you call or plan for a broken play and busted coverage to spring him on a QB scramble? That's not going to happen very often.
Originally Posted by Riczaj01
I would be fine with DH as a #4 WR if he were used properly, which we don't seem to be able to game plan for all (i.e., the vaunted phantom "Hester package" we have been promised), and if he simply had better hands and stopped dropping balls he has no excuse for dropping.
How many do you think he has? It's less then 4 this year. http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...=232&year=2012
That is the top 25 in the NFC, the lowest one is 4 drops, that means Devin has less then 4 drops this year b/c he's not on the list. so in 9 games he's dropping at most 1 catch every 3 games, or 1 in 9 passes(which is still high, but hardly a game breaking better bench his ass performance). Kellen Davis has 4, and he's on the list, and I know the list is from this year to b/c Doug Martin is on there w/8, so's Martellus Bennett as a NYG(he was on Dallas last year), and Mikel Leshoure who is also a rookie. So really how many is he dropping, that is really costing the team? Are you really telling me 4 drops from Hester out of 27 plays are costing us a game?
Every WR expects PI on every play, watch the league, watch beyond just Chicago fotball, they do that b/c they know a flag will eventually get thrown, that's not him honestly thinking he was PI'd, that's gamesmenship; it's the equivelent to flopping in the NBA. He's also not built to break a tackle, he's 5'1'' sub 200 lbs, and he's not physical. He's never on a punt return broken a tackle, he uses his speed and agility to avoid the hits. Your asking him to be something he's not, nor is any other WR his size(yes there are exceptions but those are exceptions please don't try and compare him to steve smith/hines ward those guys are #1 pro bowl wr's. He's Eddie Royal, and go look at their stats, they are very similar.
Those one or 2 great plays, that's all the team is hoping for, and not expecting btw, that's why you try and get him the ball; but not more then a few times a game.
You and I agree on how Hester should be used, but don't blame him for being put out of position, that is on the couaches. And again, I'm not saying he's a 1, a 2 or even a 3. He's limited in what he can do, and should be asked to do. You can get him into space, he has moves and speed to make the DB's play off him or misjudge where he's going, and you can tell him, do X when you see the QB leave the pocket or run open. That broken play was all on Cutler to see DH sooner and deliver the ball before he crosses the LoS.
I think the "hester package" is much like Wade Phillips saying "we're going to double Marshal" when the whole time they were planning on putting 10 in the box to stop Forte. It's gamesmenship, it's about making the other team look at the hankerchief your flapping around while your other hand is doing all the real work.
Last edited by Riczaj01; 11-13-2012 at 11:39 PM.
Well I'm not in favor of letting Hester go anywhere. For what he costs us he's still an effective player and a huge threat to score anytime he gets his hands on the ball. He may be off his stride a little right now in the return game but that happens every time he'd being over used at WR so why is anyone surprised.
His PR average is over 9 yards per return and that will climb if he brings one or two back to the the house and his 2012 KR average is above his career average once again with no TD returns. Teams aren't giving him very many opportunities in either case but eventually he'll break one. It's inevitable.
Jeffery is due back most any time and once that happens we'll see Hester less. Why they don't seem to want to use Bennett more outside of lining him up in the slot I don't know. He may still be hurting a little so it's hard to tell but he should be playing more than he is.
What Hester is good for is exactly what happened on the play Cutler got nailed on. Get him the ball where he has room to run and he's very good at it but asking him to play the role of a starting Flanker doesn't work and it never has. If Knox was playing we wouldn't even need Hester for the deep ball. Knox is far better at that. Just find ways to get him the ball in space and stop expecting him to be an ordinary type receiver and we can make use of him.
I think we got ripped on that call where he did make a nice catch and run but that's another issue I won't discuss here. The officiating was awful and we got the worst of it.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
Hester give us the egde on ST and field posion just look at the Panthers game, they would happly give us a field postion at own 40/50 yards line something we wouldn't have gotten without Hester.
That being said Hester should imo take a paycut and be KR/PR and not WR because we don't know how to use him and he shouldn't be paided like a 1# WR when he clearly isn't one.
It would be sad to see Hester leave the Bears but if he stands in the way in form of salary cap to obtain a LT such as Long/Bushrod I'd give him up, at this point he is not worth the money he is getting paid.
I'm fine keeping him on special teams. I'm not trying to be a hater here. I've always been grateful for what Hester has accomplished as a return guy.
But as a WR, we have better options on the roster. Anymore, when I see Hester at WR, I feel like we're wasting a WR position on that play. Seriously. He's not an NFL level wide receiver. He reminds me of one of Jerry Angelo's guys who may have "measureables" but who are below average at the football position they play.
Folks keep saying he's going to "break one" as a WR. But we need a CONSISTENT wide receiver weapon out there. Not the "once in a few games" guy, who basically disappears as a consistent weapon.
He's a non-factor in our offense.
Bennett doesn't have any "measureables" but the guy can catch a football. He can move the chains. Cutler seems to have a trust in him. Why not use him more, and (of course) make Alshon a centerpiece weapon opposite B.Marsh.
Hester is all hype as a WR. We tried. The Hester Experiment did not work at WR. And, the vaunted "Hester Package" developed by Tice is a laugher.
Last edited by JustAnotherBearsFan99; 11-14-2012 at 09:34 AM.
Trestman - Kromer - Tucker - DeCamillis
I'm looking forward to seeing these guys coach. Hope they're good.
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What he said.
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99
Trouble is we already have one "purely ST" player taking up a roster spot at WR (Weems). So in effect we now have 2. And with Sanz inactive most weeks, that leaves just 3 true WRs. 2 of whom are or have been hurt. And with our TEs totally ineffective, is it any wonder that the Bears' pass O consists almost entirely of Marshall Marshall and Marshall again?
SF and Houston are similar teams--good D, reliance on the rush, ball control pass O. The formula was just set for beating us: don't take too many chances on O, sell out to stop Forte, and dare the QB (our backup in this case again) to beat you with only one effective receiving weapon. Harbaugh has to see this.
Last edited by MPBears68; 11-14-2012 at 02:34 PM.
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99
With Hester as a WR, beyond the dropped passes, the more important thing everyone is forgetting is he doesn't finish the play. How many times has he stopped on his route when the play goes somewhere else? Gives up when he gets bumped and there's no flag. Doesn't try for the ball he has to reach for. Sure, once in a while he does like a few weeks ago, but he needs to do that on every play. Last week he makes the catch at 5 yards on third and 7, then what does he do? Does he run forward to get those last 2 yards? No, he stutter steps and dances in position until he gets tackled. Punt. DH has no business being a WR. If he won't perform what the position demands, he needs to be cut. There is no excuse for not blocking his cover guy when the play goes elsewhere. It happens all the time and it sickens me. BMarshal is excellent at doing this.
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Hester losing a step speed wise may be true, but his droughts have come from his wr use. The more he's seemingly used as wr the more he seems to run east-west. The ST blocking has been suspect as well. Add to that the more reps Hester gets at wr the less burst or fresh legs he is going to have and will appear even slower.
Hester has some great years left as a returner. If you maximize his utility at this ONE position he is more of a game changer than he would ever be at wr. Imagine if he were only a KR or used only here and there how much more games would have changed.
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