Can Bears get their own Kalil?

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Originally Posted by purplejokr

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Tice's record as an O-Line coach is pretty darn good. There is only so much that a coach can do though. Tice may have hooted and hollered up and down Halas Hall but the folks in charge CHOSE to draft other positions. We'll never know the truth of the matter but we DO KNOW that the Bears haven't historically drafted up front. What we can see though is Tice's record as an O-Line coach and it is more than respectable. His record as a head coach or OC are not the greatest. Just because the Bears' O-Line is faltering doesn't make it Tice's fault entirely. I don't think that it is a coincidence that Webb's regression is taking place after Tice was promoted to OC.

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Tice has been pretty honest about things even as bad as they are. He has stated that he was "good" with what he had. In fact he was very high on Rachal. Even in the seasons he was here regardless of talent he wasn't even able to raise the pass-pro of the OL by even a few places. Near dead last. Not even with removing the 7 step drop, not even with much TE chip help,and not even with blind luck was improvement seen.

Many coaches come into or find programs that will make them look better than they are. The hallmark of being such a "guru" is to do much with not a lot. We need a TON of talent at OL but if he needs an across the board infusion then all of his experiments, castoffs, and re-treads are both foolish and he is NO guru.


Here's a Webb question for some of you. What do you consider a fail at LT and at what point is this experiment a failure or not a failure? How many years do you give this guy? When and if you pull the plug what is your idea of success/failure?

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

Tice has been pretty honest about things even as bad as they are. He has stated that he was "good" with what he had. In fact he was very high on Rachal. Even in the seasons he was here regardless of talent he wasn't even able to raise the pass-pro of the OL by even a few places. Near dead last. Not even with removing the 7 step drop, not even with much TE chip help,and not even with blind luck was improvement seen.

Many coaches come into or find programs that will make them look better than they are. The hallmark of being such a "guru" is to do much with not a lot. We need a TON of talent at OL but if he needs an across the board infusion then all of his experiments, castoffs, and re-treads are both foolish and he is NO guru.


Here's a Webb question for some of you. What do you consider a fail at LT and at what point is this experiment a failure or not a failure? How many years do you give this guy? When and if you pull the plug what is your idea of success/failure?

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Regarding Webb, I think you give him the remaining season's games to show what he can do. Kind of like a final exam in school. All that counts is what he can deliver now for the Bears. The painful games that we saw during his past "learning curve" are meaningless now. That was his on-the-job training, and what you get when you take on a "project" player in the 7th round & try to make a starting NFL LT.

At the end of the season we have 3 options:

1. Determine if he is good enough to be a starter moving forward in 2013, or

2. he may be worth keeping as a bench, swing tackle, or

3. he may be worthless and we cut him.

To answer your question, I think it's decision time at the end of the season. Either the experiment worked or failed. But, keep in mind our other options are not too good. Matt Kalil was the #4 man taken in the draft. You don't get Matt Kalil's late in the first round, where the Bears will have their first pick. And, you don't get Matt Kalil players in FA very often. Teams don't let these guys walk.

So, if the Webb experiment fails, we still have MAJOR problems.

Speaking about getting a good FA LT, apparently Long has not been doing well lately. I don't follow anyone other than the Bears, so I had no clue.

Jake Long’s decline creates dilemma for Dolphins

Posted by Mike Florio on November 24, 2012, 9:59 PM EST
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.word...9283.jpg?w=198 AP In 2008, the Dolphins opted for left tackle Jake Long over quarterback Matt Ryan. It was the safer pick and, through the first few years of Long’s career, an argument could be made that it was a six-of-one-half-dozen-of-another proposition.
More recently, it’s looking like the Fins got it wrong with Long.
Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald explains that Long has been declining in recent years.
“His run-blocking grades have rarely been the best among Miami’s offensive linemen,” Salguero writes. ”He no longer is playing like the best tackle in the NFL. He’s not even playing like the best tackle in his conference (Houston’s Duane Brown is that) or division (D’Brickashaw Ferguson and Nate Solder have been better).”
Given that the final year of Long’s rookie contract has voided, Long will become a free agent in March absent a new contract. And with Long’s big-money, pre-rookie-wage-scale deal serving as the starting point for talks, it will be hard for the Dolphins to do a market-value deal without Long knowing his market value.
The only way Long will know his market value will be to go to market. And that’s where someone will make a bad football decision but a good business decision and overpay Long.
The only way for the Dolphins to avoid that would be to overpay Long now, or later via the franchise tag in February.

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Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Speaking about getting a good FA LT, apparently Long has not been doing well lately. I don't follow anyone other than the Bears, so I had no clue.

Jake Long’s decline creates dilemma for Dolphins

Posted by Mike Florio on November 24, 2012, 9:59 PM EST
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.word...9283.jpg?w=198 AP In 2008, the Dolphins opted for left tackle Jake Long over quarterback Matt Ryan. It was the safer pick and, through the first few years of Long’s career, an argument could be made that it was a six-of-one-half-dozen-of-another proposition.
More recently, it’s looking like the Fins got it wrong with Long.
Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald explains that Long has been declining in recent years.
“His run-blocking grades have rarely been the best among Miami’s offensive linemen,” Salguero writes. ”He no longer is playing like the best tackle in the NFL. He’s not even playing like the best tackle in his conference (Houston’s Duane Brown is that) or division (D’Brickashaw Ferguson and Nate Solder have been better).”
Given that the final year of Long’s rookie contract has voided, Long will become a free agent in March absent a new contract. And with Long’s big-money, pre-rookie-wage-scale deal serving as the starting point for talks, it will be hard for the Dolphins to do a market-value deal without Long knowing his market value.
The only way Long will know his market value will be to go to market. And that’s where someone will make a bad football decision but a good business decision and overpay Long.
The only way for the Dolphins to avoid that would be to overpay Long now, or later via the franchise tag in February.

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This is what you often get in FA. Often it's a guy who is damaged goods, or can't perform well anymore. I keep remembering the Orlando Pace debacle. The guy was just a big name guy who couldn't play anymore. You pay a big paycheck for a crap player. Just because he used to be a great player.

Sfb q mitchel after one year of Webb like performance was replaced. Why this clown is still a starter after three years of absolutely no progress at two positions kills me. With that resume he doesn't even deserve to be a swing tackle

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Originally Posted by motownbear

Sfb q mitchel after one year of Webb like performance was replaced. Why this clown is still a starter after three years of absolutely no progress at two positions kills me. With that resume he doesn't even deserve to be a swing tackle

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It's not the qb position where it could many take years. Granted LT takes time but at least w/talent a guy can make up for a lot of shortcomings. At least w/talent and half a brain you won't see the same mental mistakes over and over.

Not sure if there is a pro sport that would allow consistent fail at this position like this season after season expecting different results. There isn't even legit competition which would push him. At least they yanked Omiyale and he was slightly better.

Omiyfale did get yanked, and Webb should have had to sit when both Rachal and Carimi had to sit. Tice is Tice and this is the way it's going down.

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

It's not the qb position where it could many take years. Granted LT takes time but at least w/talent a guy can make up for a lot of shortcomings. At least w/talent and half a brain you won't see the same mental mistakes over and over.

Not sure if there is a pro sport that would allow consistent fail at this position like this season after season expecting different results. There isn't even legit competition which would push him. At least they yanked Omiyale and he was slightly better.

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There's a point where where the HC has to step in and say "this isn't working". You at least bench a guy to teach him a lesson. You can't learn if your position is golden or fear of losing your job isn't there.

I wonder what the other guys on the line think with that type of double standard?

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

There's a point where where the HC has to step in and say "this isn't working". You at least bench a guy to teach him a lesson. You can't learn if your position is golden or fear of losing your job isn't there.

I wonder what the other guys on the line think with that type of double standard?

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On a team with even average OL talent on the roster, you could do this. Here's our dilemma. Our starting OL is backup quality (at best). Our backups are not NFL-level players. So we're already in a critically bad situation with our starters. Pull them and put in our arena-level OL and we're even worse.

I blame Jerry Angelo.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

On a team with even average OL talent on the roster, you could do this. Here's our dilemma. Our starting OL is backup quality (at best). Our backups are not NFL-level players. So we're already in a critically bad situation with our starters. Pull them and put in our arena-level OL and we're even worse.

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I believe what some think is whoever else is put in is going to be terrible squared-doesn't work like that-turnstyles are turnstyles. When your getting your junk crushed on 3 step drops it IS arena league level blcoking. You really can't make matters worse only different.

Put in someone else and chip w/them-it'll be no different.