NFL Fines Allen $21k for Hit on Louis...............

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

I'm surprised there isn't some rule that would state "if your actions remove a player from playing the rest of the season you will be fined x amount regardless of intent."

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They kind of already do that... if you take out "remove a player from playing the rest of the season" and insert "are against the rules" ... you're pretty much where they're at now. You notice most fines are pretty close in number, except for repeat offenders.

I don't think it is a cheap hit either, I think it is more of the spur of the moment he made a huge block even if he left his feet. How many times have I seen a player stiff arm a player in the face or make a low tackle and hurt another player. Had he not blew out his ACL this would not be a discussion.

I don't think anyone said Allen season should end because of it, or at least I didn't, but adding some suspensions to the fine and possibly increasing them both initially and incrementally as a matter of established rules might cut down on the incidences and therefore the injuries.

An illegal hit already gets you a fine but for most of these guys it's pocket change. But if that illegal hit causes an injury that requires a player to be removed from the game or miss games then I think a suspension added to the fine makes sense. It's not an issue now but maybe that's something that should be put in force next year. In Allen's case a one game 2013 suspension costs him $892.5k and change. With Suh it would be about $697k.

I'm not calling Allen a "dirty player" (and we already know the answer to that regarding Suh) but maybe just maybe a guy has to think twice about how he goes about his business on game day. Maybe that leg doesn't come up into Matt Schaub's groin or Cutler's helmet isn't ripped off his head while tackling him or maybe Jared Allen uses his hands to ward off Louis instead of throwing himself at him helmet and shoulder first.

If you fine the white collar creeps on Wall Street a few million for stealing a billion does anyone think that's gonna stop them from doing it again. No, you put them in jail so they can't do it again and if you take a player away from his livelihood for a game or two maybe just maybe we see less of this and threads like this never get posted.

4th, you're a big time hockey fan just like I am. What happens when an illegal hit causes injury or draws blood? A minor penalty becomes a major and fines and suspensions get involved. (Even if they don't have the stones to stick with some of them). It's automatic. There's no appeal. The player is out of the game for 5 minutes or longer and maybe the entire rest of the game.

Why should it be any different in the NFL? Let some guys lose a few big game checks and then let's see where it sits. And this isn't just about losing Louis. It happened with Cutler too and with Bennett last year and who knows who twisted whose ankle in the pile up Forte got hurt in? All I'm saying is that just the threat of losing $20 or $30k doesn't seem to matter so start turning that into $200k or $900k and then see what happens.

Well, FWIW that's my rant on it. :cheers:

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Originally Posted by soulman

Well now there's a thought 99 but they'll never get it through the rules committee. The league office seems to have enough trouble with guys appealing suspensions so they won't welcome more. Maybe the just do this and make it something that can't be appealed. It's automatic just like a major penalty vs a minor penalty in hockey.

But I do agree that there should be more severe penalties than just a fine. I think they need to bump that fine up to about $50k for a first offense and $100k for a second and a third gets you $250k and the rest of that season off.

I'd also start adding a one game suspension to the first offense and a four game suspension to the second on top of the fine. It's a reasonable penalty since that move cost another team the services of it's player. That somewhat serves the eye for an eye approach. The union will raise a stink but screw 'em. It's protects more players against injury than it hurts with fines and suspensions.

No one will ever prove that a bounty system exists but realistically it's being done with or without direct compensation and some teams and a handful of players seem to be more involved more often than others. When it starts costing them a big fine and several game checks maybe they'll think twice.

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I'm just venting. I don't know how they could ever judge the hits fairly. How do you separate the personal fouls, that really are NOT cheap shots, from the ones what are clearly a guy trying to hurt someone? And to be honest, I wouldn't think Allen's hit would be one I do believe that to a certain extent he just reacted, and laid the wood to Louis, not wanting to end the guys season.

I think the lower fine on Allen is because it was a first offense. While it was an illegal hit, and a dirty hit, he is not seen as a dirty player. I certainly do not see him that way.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I'm just venting. I don't know how they could ever judge the hits fairly. How do you separate the personal fouls, that really are NOT cheap shots, from the ones what are clearly a guy trying to hurt someone? And to be honest, I wouldn't think Allen's hit would be one I do believe that to a certain extent he just reacted, and laid the wood to Louis, not wanting to end the guys season. (They do it in the NBA under the heading of a flagrant foul. They do in the NHL and call it a major penalty. In MLB if you intentionally throw at a hitter you get ejected)

I'm just sick over Louis missing the rest of the season. I was so mad after this went down that I'd have been OK if they just took Allen to the end zone and put a bullet in his head. Obviously a crazy-man over reaction :smile:

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Maybe the suspensions are a little over the top for first time offenders, shit happens, but guys like Suh have it coming and there are others as well. A $21k fine is chicken feed to a guy making $11 mil plus per year. He'd blow that much on dinner and drinks for his line mates at a Monday night dinner in a five star restaurant.

Then don't suspend them but rather make the fine a percentage of their salary or the equivalent of one game check. That'll get their attention but $21k? That's pocket change to a guy like Allen. A fine needs to be substantial and punitive to be effective and that's not in this case or most cases.

Here's another solution. If by the result of an illegal hit an opposing player must leave that game make it a rule that the offending player is ejected for the remainder of the game. There's a small scale eye for eye for you. This is a no-appeal call by the official and neither player returns in that game.

Then let the league office look at it after the fact to determine if other fines or punishment is needed. Like I said this isn't just about the Louis thing. Cutler got decked and we lost him for a game and a half and lost both. Bennett got nailed with a questionable hit last year and missed time. Carimi got blasted after the whistle in the GB game but that didn't result in an injury, just a penalty on him.

Just make it simple. Make an illegal hit on a defenseless player no matter what position subject to an immediate ejection it it causes an injury serious enough for a player to be removed from the game. In the case of Allen and Louis that "heat of the battle" things runs pretty shallow. The intent may or may not have been there but the illegal hit was and he should be flagged and ejected for it because it caused a serious injury. Same with anyone else who does that same.

You don't need to prove intent to injure just to say it's illegal.

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Originally Posted by soulman

Here's another solution. If by the result of an illegal hit an opposing player must leave that game make it a rule that the offending player is ejected for the remainder of the game. There's a small scale eye for eye for you. This is a no-appeal call by the official and neither player returns in that game.

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Never happen, and I do not think this should.

Say, for example, Peppers accidentally runs into one of the lesser valuable players on a team, accidentally makes a helmet to helmet hit. One that is not overly important to their game plan. There is nothing stopping the opposing team saying.... "oh, he is hurt too bad to return" even if he is perfectly fine. Us losing Peppers is a bigger blow than them losing a 3rd or 4th receiver. There would be too many shenanigans in play if this rule were put in the books.

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Originally Posted by The Benjamin

Never happen, and I do not think this should.

Say, for example, Peppers accidentally runs into one of the lesser valuable players on a team, accidentally makes a helmet to helmet hit. One that is not overly important to their game plan. There is nothing stopping the opposing team saying.... "oh, he is hurt too bad to return" even if he is perfectly fine. Us losing Peppers is a bigger blow than them losing a 3rd or 4th receiver. There would be too many shenanigans in play if this rule were put in the books.

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There's a difference between "illegal contact" by a helmet and an "illegal hit" on a defenseless player. Both are against the rules Benji but two different calls. The first is normally incidental but the second is intentional. You just have to better define what constitutes defenseless and in the case of Allen vs Louis it's unclear so that's why there was no flag but the league office defined it as an illegal hit ergo the fine.

It's up to the ref to make that judgement as to whether or not a player launched himself into an opponent who could not adequately prepare for that blow and defend himself. In the case of Allen vs Louis (after the fact) it was an illegal hit period. You can't leave your feet to make a hit like that. Whether the guys is defenseless or not that is against the rules period. So he should have been flagged at the very least.

It's no different than the hit the Houston LB put on Cutler. He left his feet and launched himself at him so it's illegal period. But that one got flagged because Jay is a QB not and OG. That shouldn't make any difference. An illegal hit is an illegal hit.

Now the ref has to make a ruling as to whether it was excessive and caused injury. In this case clearly it did. So under the rule I propose Allen gets ejected. Boom, gone for the rest of the game and it's not subject to review.

Yeah it's a judgement call and yeah Bears players may get caught up in it too but this isn't about partisanship. It's about the league stopping their hypocrisy about protecting players and cutting down on injuries. If a stiffer fine, and ejection, and potential suspensions for multiple occurrences were on the table then maybe I'd believe the NFL was trying to reduce injuries but as it stands I'd ay they aren't trying very hard.

This was deal was clearly a case where a rule like I suggest would have resulted in an ejection and if the fine is gonna do much good it has to be steeper than that when you're talking about players who make millions. JMHO.

Someone mentioned that the value of the fine should be a percentage of what the offending player earned that week. This is a good idea. IMO