As Sox put it on another thread Carimi could fill out nicely at OG. Not sure why this kid isn't getting the same (or at least a portion) of slack some of the other OL have gotten. 2 knee surgeries and he's still a rook, plus learning the nuances of RT.
At least give him another year. C'mon man!
Agree completely, SFB. Yeah, he's struggled and disappointed this year. But he played well that game and a half before he got hurt last season and its not fair to expect him to be successful learning as a rookie and notbback to 100% physically less than a year out from his surgeries. If he's not substantially better a year from now, then there's cause for concern but not yet. Lots of OTs need a year or two to get it.
Whenever I think about this, I keep coming back to the same thought.
Carimi has an impeccable pedigree for an NFL lineman coming out of college. He was LT for Wisconsin - a premier "oline factory" for sending stud OL to the NFL. And on top of that, he was the #1 olineman in the nation, winning the Outland Trophy as the #1 olineman in the entire United States.
Yeah, I have to believe the injury has temporarily set him back a bit. I can't imagine the remotest possibility of him being a bust.
Im with you JABF and think that a year or two from now Bears fans will forget having ever mentioned the "bust" word about GC. He has a tremendous work ethic so you know he's gonna put his all into training and improving (unlike Webb who comes across as lackadaisical and careless).
I do wonder a little though about how college experience affects an OLman especially in his first year. Matt Kalil came from a pro-style passing game at USC and Carimi came from a run-heavy ground-and-pound school at Wisconsin. It's no secret why Kalil has been solid and Carimi is struggling in pass pro this year.
Carimi has an impeccable pedigree for an NFL lineman coming out of college. He was LT for Wisconsin - a premier "oline factory" for sending stud OL to the NFL. And on top of that, he was the #1 olineman in the nation, winning the Outland Trophy as the #1 olineman in the entire United States.
That was all before he was put through the guru training program
Whenever I think about this, I keep coming back to the same thought.
Carimi has an impeccable pedigree for an NFL lineman coming out of college. He was LT for Wisconsin - a premier "oline factory" for sending stud OL to the NFL. And on top of that, he was the #1 olineman in the nation, winning the Outland Trophy as the #1 olineman in the entire United States.
I agree with this. Which makes my next question quite the brain twister.
So he is not only a product of arguably the best OL program in college football and one of the best "tackle factories in the country - if not the best". I think we all agree there. To further distinguish himself, as you say, he was the very best in the country at LT, winning the Outland trophy. As you say -- quite the pedigree.
So a guy with that pedigree comes to Chicago where there are all sorts of issues with a weak OL and a weak LT in particular, and the OL coach says "hmmmm. doesn't look like he would make an NFL LT on this team, let's make him a RT". No chance to win the position from a person that has been struggling. Then they put him in at RT and does fairly well until he gets injured. Then he gets put back in at RT when he gets back and steadily regresses.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture. Obviously, we don't know everything, especially how well his knee is doing, but something is not right.
Last edited by bearsinhouston; 11-29-2012 at 05:00 PM.
I agree with this. Which makes my next question quite the brain twister.
So he is not only a product of arguably the best OL program in college football and one of the best "tackle factories in the country - if not the best". I think we all agree there. To further distinguish himself, as you say, he was the very best in the country at LT, winning the Outland trophy. As you say -- quite the pedigree.
So a guy with that pedigree comes to Chicago where there are all sorts of issues with a weak OL and a weak LT in particular, and the OL coach says "hmmmm. doesn't look like he would make an NFL LT on this team, let's make him a RT". No chance to win the position from a person that has been struggling. Then they put him in at RT and does fairly well until he gets injured. Then he gets put back in at RT when he gets back and steadily regresses.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture. Obviously, we don't know everything, especially how well his knee is doing, but something is not right.
Your points regarding the coaching staff are well founded. The OL was playing better overall mid-season last year than this one despite having less talent IMO. There's actually been a REGRESSION in the OL and the offense in general (despite Marshall) since Tice moved from position coach to OC. Says a lot, doesn't it???
In all fairness with regard to the Carimi LT vs. RT thing, Tice was not alone by a long shot in that call. There's no way Carimi would have fallen all the way to #29 in the 2011 draft unless it was the general consensus across the NFL that he was RT >> LT (like Reiff this year). True stud LTs almost never make it out of the top 10-15 in the draft. Just because he played it and excelled in college doesn't make it his best position in the NFL.
MP -- all true. But the fact that he won the award for the best Ol in the country while an LT says he was playing it better than the other guys that were playing LT - some that came in as an NFL LT. Should have been at least a glimmer of hope that he would outperform the #32 LT in the league. For my money, at least worth trying with that pedigree.
Originally Posted by MPBears68
Your points regarding the coaching staff are well founded. The OL was playing better overall mid-season last year than this one despite having less talent IMO. There's actually been a REGRESSION in the OL and the offense in general (despite Marshall) since Tice moved from position coach to OC. Says a lot, doesn't it???
In all fairness with regard to the Carimi LT vs. RT thing, Tice was not alone by a long shot in that call. There's no way Carimi would have fallen all the way to #29 in the 2011 draft unless it was the general consensus across the NFL that he was RT >> LT (like Reiff this year). True stud LTs almost never make it out of the top 10-15 in the draft. Just because he played it and excelled in college doesn't make it his best position in the NFL.
I just keep telling myself he was not all the way back yet from last seasons injury. Reading the tea leaves but late surgery+lots of time off during mini camps/training camps+trying to upgrade @ swing tackle during the season tells me they knew he would not be 100% this season and may possibly be struggling in the health department.
Don't destroy the man's confidence, let him get healthy, and hopefully we will be laughing about this next season when he is slapping fudgepackers around!!
I agree. He's a band-aid for now and an RT-or-bust going forward. Next year will definitely be a decisive time for that decision. I'm inclined to side more with the second article than the first though that's partially out of hope. I have to believe that being a rookie and less than a year out from major knee surgery and missing a full offseason has a lot to with his struggles in pass pro this year. If he flops again next year though, the BUST flag will definitely come flying up the flagpole.
Hate to say it, but JA had all this info at his disposal. He had the "yellow flag" medical stuff and the knowledge the GC came from a run heavy program at Wisconsin so he probably didn't have much pass pro experience. It's should be no surprise that Carimi had a repeat patella subluxation and turned out to be way worse at pass pro than run blocking. As small consolation, the Packers have experienced both these issue too. Brian Bulaga, another UW OT, has struggled miserably in pass pro and Derek Sherrod, the OT drafted right after Carimi, has been injured much of the year.
Maybe Big10 lineman aren't the ones you really want to protect your QB (sacrilegious I know). Maybe Stanford and USC guys do that better since their teams actually throw the ball in a semi-pro style of offense.
Some good observations here MP. I had to chuckle at the 3rd worst RT rating though. I figure that no matter how bad he's been in pass protection that makes him 3x better than Webb was his rookie year and way ahead of the curve since Webb won those honors once each at both RT and LT.
So if a thick headed oaf like Webb can improve so can a guy with more brains than brawn right now. After all, by all acouunts he's still a rookie and a rookie who had to spend and entire year just getting back to where he was physically instead of getting stronger. I've never thought that he was 100% ever since the year began because he never got pushed around like that in college.
He doesn't have much in the way of natural pass blocking talent and he never developed much of it at UW either because he didn't have to. If we don't see any real improvement in him as a RT next year then I'd begin to worry but for now? No.
If we weren't experiencing all the crap we are it probably would have been better to play Scott at RT a while ago and let Carimi work his way back into that slot. His loss of confidence in his pass blocking is obvious and he needs to get that back. He's overcompensating all over the place and not getting setup properly. He's got too much Tice on the brain right now.
I have to admit the Webb is improving but his inconsistency drives us all nuts. No matter what we should be in the market for a LT next spring in FA. A rookie won't help us. If we could go into camp with Webb, Carimi, Scott, and a vet FA (the best we can afford) I think we'll be fine. Right now I'm more worried about how that ACL or MCL injury will affect Louis's future and in drafting another interior lineman.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
I have always thought that we should be drafting for need (ie Tackle), but now I'm beginning to reconsider that stance. If we had taken the Best Guarde or Center where we picked up Carimi at, you would have to think that the line might be better.
I don't pretend to be an expert, but it seems that with Williams Busting, Carimi struggling, Webb starting for this many years, we would be better off jst drafting the best avaialble lineman every year in the third round. And we need a Servicable LT in FA.
Webb is not the answer, he has been healthy and in the NFL for 3 years now, sorry but I don't care if he is going from last to 27th, he is not the solution.
Originally Posted by short faced bear
short faced bear say BEAR DOWN!
Restore the roar!
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