This Is The Guy Who Should Be Running The Bears Offense.......

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Originally Posted by soulman

Well if Bates is now wearing a headset (something he wasn't doing earlier) then it's possible that he's being given more authority as far as play calling but if it's only as a go between for Tice and Cutler it's a little unnecessary as far as I'm concerned.

One thing for certain is that the offensive approach changed somewhat for the better last game so whether that was because Bates was calling plays or simply was allowed more say in that it seemed to have worked. Given the situation with that line this is what they should be doing and I've been saying it for weeks.

As for Bates track record in Seattle all I can say is that he didn't have Cutler and Marshall in Seattle but he did in Denver and he does now. So let's look at what he's done with those tools at his disposal rather than others when we imagine what might be possible if he was allowed full rein off the offense.

This has nothing to do with changing the engine in a plane that's been in a nose dive for more than half the season. This is about letting the co-pilot take over before that plane actually does crash on landing. The engine hasn't changed. Just the man with his hand on the stick. To me that is making the best use of who we have at our disposal.

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Those are all good points. To be honest, I don't know what to expect these last games. I'm hoping the offense is good enough to finish strong. At the same time I fear the oline situation may be too much to overcome (certainly if we have any additional guys go down to injury).

I'm just going to watch and see what happens these last games. I am desperately hoping we can build on the Vikings victory and play well (and win) against Seattle. But we're really dinged up now. Tillman and Forte will play, but who knows how hurt they really are.

maybe it wasnt the offensive approach that changed and just Vikings arent that good

either way screw tice pixy dust theory can finally be put to rest

if Bates is the right stuff to get a historically archaic garbage offense up to speed with some of the best Im all for it.

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Originally Posted by motownbear

maybe it wasnt the offensive approach that changed and just Vikings arent that good

either way screw tice pixy dust theory can finally be put to rest

if Bates is the right stuff to get a historically archaic garbage offense up to speed with some of the best Im all for it.

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They may not be that good. I was impressed by how physical and hard they played. They were as physical as the 49ers, but not as talented. Still, it was a brutal game, and we won.

Since I am a Bates man all I will say is could he do any worst.

I'll just leave at this and then bow out. This is my rationale plain and simple.

This summer we heard all kinds of talk from the man about how he would solve the protection problem, how he had a special "Hester Package" that would finally allow him to be used productively, how he would move Cutler around to cut down on sacks, his faith in his line and how much better they would be this year, and finally just how explosive his offense would be.

Do you all remember his saying all of this and how we bragged before the season began that the Packers would now have to deal with a team who finally had an offense to match their defense? Well where is it????? I recall Evernight posting some cautions about expecting too much but I don't think even one of us listened to that. We all bought off on Tice's hype instead.

So where is this "explosive offense" we were all led to expect? If he's keeping it under wraps until the playoffs so he can spring it on unsuspecting teams then I'd bump that time frame up a little or we may not even get that far. A playoff spot is far from being in the bag just yet and even if we make it how will we beat teams like GB, SF, NY or ATL with no offense or at least as little as we've shown so far.

There ya' go. That's what drives me to think the way I do and why I would have made the change in play callers if I was HC. But I'm not so all I can do is bitch about it here. And I did, so there. :4_2_204v[1]::tongue:

We get them again in a week. They will want to win this one. Hopefully they won't take out the other half of our team.

Soul:

Here are my thoughts on this. I believe he in fact did have plans for all this stuff. I think he drew them all up and then just flat out didn't have the ability to make them happen. What I mean by that was that he thought drawing them up nice and pretty on the board would mean that it all worked as planned. When stuff didn't go as planned, then that's when you seperate the real gurus from the rest. You have to be able to disect what didn't happen right, then understand what will fix it and make those changes. I think that he simply is not able to do that. As far as hester goes, I think only a few people can make that work. Hester is also his own worst enemy. You can take a guy that is a great open field threat and make him make a difference by putting him in situations where you can get him the ball in a relatively open field situation, but that person needs to help out. The play may be to get him open, but that person also needs to be able to get open if it doesn;t work, and they need to catch the ball when thrown to them or the best open field running won't help.

With him, I think it's a combination of the coaches wanting to bottle his return capabilities and make him a mult-facited threat. They know he has the talent and they won't give up trying becuause then the weak link is them -- on both their evaluation of their abilty to coach him up, and their ability to see whether or not he can be a real WR. They not only thought he could be a real WR, but they had him pegged as a #1 WR. Now that we have a #1 WR, anyone think that Marshall and Hester are equal in terms of their capabilities as a WR? These guys are top level NFL coaches. Why can't they see this stuff?

So, human nature, stubborness, refusal to admit you can't do it, and not wanting to walk away from the investment in him. Pretty much all the normal human faults. I don't think much of Tice and I have been thinking less and less of Lovie. If the goal of a coach is to be be as loyal as humanly possible to your coaches, he is the best. If his job is to find the best talent and get them to the SB, he needs to be able to see reality for what it is and make the necessary changes. He is too loyal to his coaches. Which is fine if they are the best. Then you can go with what they say - believe who they tell you are good players and trust them when they say they can coach someone up. With Tice you can't do that and Lovie needs to see that and do what he needs to do.

Both need a good flush.

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Originally Posted by soulman

I'll just leave at this and then bow out. This is my rationale plain and simple.

This summer we heard all kinds of talk from the man about how he would solve the protection problem, how he had a special "Hester Package" that would finally allow him to be used productively, how he would move Cutler around to cut down on sacks, his faith in his line and how much better they would be this year, and finally just how explosive his offense would be.

Do you all remember his saying all of this and how we bragged before the season began that the Packers would now have to deal with a team who finally had an offense to match their defense? Well where is it????? I recall Evernight posting some cautions about expecting too much but I don't think even one of us listened to that. We all bought off on Tice's hype instead.

So where is this "explosive offense" we were all led to expect? If he's keeping it under wraps until the playoffs so he can spring it on unsuspecting teams then I'd bump that time frame up a little or we may not even get that far. A playoff spot is far from being in the bag just yet and even if we make it how will we beat teams like GB, SF, NY or ATL with no offense or at least as little as we've shown so far.

There ya' go. That's what drives me to think the way I do and why I would have made the change in play callers if I was HC. But I'm not so all I can do is bitch about it here. And I did, so there. :4_2_204v[1]::tongue:

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I think the questions I would ask are:

1) Would Bates be more tactically flexible and be able to make adjustments on the fly? Not be FORCED to do it b/c of injuries like Tice.

2) Does Bates have a bad stubborn streak, hubris, or myopia that he cannot objectively evaluate his offense?

3) Would Bates stand pat in a draft or insist on bringing in real talent or at least just as much attention that has been paid to the other side of the ball? Would he make solid, legitimate attempts to get out of the basement of the lowest ranked o-line and not use castoffs, re-treads, and UDFA's as a panacea?

I think he could very well be the guy.

I think our expectations for this year's offense were sky high (mine were anyway). But in hindsight, that was unrealistic. I still believe Emery has work to do with this offense. Not Tice. Emery.

Emery inherited a lot of personnel problems - years of under-performance by Angelo, and it was unrealistic to believe he could fix everything in one off season. He did one heck of a good job IMHO. But the oline didn't get fixed. It was an abortion, and then we had our best OL guy put on IR. Another is green as a gourd, and got overwhelmed at RT. Another went mental and snapped. What a mess.

Fans are upset and want to blame most of this on Mike Tice. Some think Bates is "The Answer" to our woes. I just don't think this is that simple. Building an offense is a complex equation. But us fans, we just see stuff and "react" thinking it's as simple as plugging in a guy with 1 failed season as an OC - and THAT will "make it all good" again.

It just isn't that simple IMHO. It's going to take another off-season to fix the offense. I do believe the oline will get proper attention this off season. I like to think we still have a decent chance of doing well THIS season, in spite of all the changes and a crap oline.

I think our expectations for this offense this season were too high. Maybe that was Mike Tice's fault. But you do want to go into a season positive and upbeat. I have said this many times in many threads - I believe Tice was told he would have to wait to get the oline fixed. So, consequently he tried to be positive and do the best he could with the people he had. Yes, he said publicly these were good OL guys, but what the heck did you expect him to say? That our season was doomed because HE didn't get studs to work with in the draft or FA?

Let's see what happens with Seattle. I expect it will be a brutal game, and as physical as the SF & Vikings games. Probably more injuries too.

@Soul: The "package" is in fact a gift. The Hester Gift will be unwrapped the 24th December, and then we'll have an explosive offense. You gotta let them think you're weak and then show them who's boss.

But I can agree on that I bought the hype.. But if you look on the names we have on the paper just look at it: Bush, Forte, Cutler, Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett (and Hester if he just worked out on the bloody offense..) That is a scary offense, imagine if they had a propper Oline to work behind.. I tell you we wouldn't be ranked where we're ranked atm.