Who's the next guy?

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Originally Posted by XaosGorilla

Personally, I suspect that part of the reason for promoting Tice was becaus
e there was no one else who was qualified, and who wanted the job. Nobody wants to be placed in a position to fail, and then be told that they have to succeed in order to keep their job. I also think this is how we ended up with Martz as well.

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Could very well be but I think our lack of all things offense stems from the top

The problem with his career here, his problem in games, are the same..

Ego and the lack of ability to adjust

Never adjusts to game trends and has never adjusted to the types of players available (ie receiving TE)

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Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

I see all kinds of issues, but being a businessman, I say it always comes back to the guys calling the shots. If a player has potential, you need to have the people in place that can develop that potential. If they don't then you need to have people that can see that and move on. It seems that we are stuck in the middle with many that do not produce and they don't get better and they don't get replaced.

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:36_1_55[1]::yay:

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Personally, I have more questions than answers regarding this season. I'd like to see how the team and Lovie handles these next 4 games and the post season, before I make up my own mind. There ARE a lot of factors to consider, depending upon how the team finishes.

One scenario could be the team collapsing and the coaches failing to do anything about it.

Another scenario could be the team turning this around, and despite injuries and oline woes, they rally and finish strong.

Emery will have to sort it all out after a full-season "body of work" to look at. I will tell you what I don't want to happen. I don't want to see a knee jerk reaction where we equate "any new coach" with making us better. Don't kid yourself, we could get worse if the Bears don't get it right. A lot worse. Detroit worse.

I just want them to be thoughtful - and any resulting change should make us better, and not "change for the sake of change" to appease the fans.

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100% correct. That being said, it could get a lot better. That's the thing about being average year after year after year; you're never going to be an abomination on the league, but you're never going to lift the trophy either. I authored an aphorism a few years back (I know, I'm kinda weird) that was a bit lengthy, but it started out like this "In a free market and capitalistic society, there is often a very fine line between success and failure, the latter of which is often precipitated by the presence of balls!" In other words, if you want to be a Champion, you can't sit around and wait for "average" to find lighting in a bottle, you've got to go out and find "Dynamic" to do the job. Champions don't sit on their hands when action is required. That said, you are right, this is not a guaranteed world; as Walter said, "Tomorrow is promised to no one", so in our search for Mr. Dynamic, we may get stuck with another "Mr. Average", or worse. But we won't know unless we try, meanwhile, someone else is grabbing "Mr. Dynamic".

Frankly, the more I write, the more I see this whole discussion as a microcosm of the funk this nation is in. Nobody wants to take a chance to get better, everybody just seems content with the status quo and let someone else worry about taking care of the problems of the world. Man, I'm sick of that shit. It's time for people to start standing up and demanding better from what they are spoon fed, but first they have to stand up and demand better from THEMSELVES and quit waiting for someone else to fix their problems for them. This whole Country used to be Mr. Dynamic, but it sure is turning into Mr. Average.

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Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Well, I keep coming up with the same question. Cutler has now had tow games with decent protection. Offensive production did not reflect that. The inference I would have to make from that is that the OL play was not the primary driver for the lousy play (as silly as that feels to be typing that when I saw how horrible they were, I can't logically come to any other conclusion).

So then what is the issue (issues actually)?

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We have one weapon on the edge right now, Marshall. Forte is not running well, maybe he's hurt more than we think like two years ago. But, then again, the run blocking was not good, but has been better this year. Play calling in general. Poor execution on others...dropped passes, receivers not getting deep enough on third downs, etc. Basically, it a team (offense) effort why, not just the OL.

Yeah. I see the same stuff, but when you start to peel the onion more, it becomes cloudy (or should I say, like all onions, starts to make you cry). We have had several WR's in the system for years - Hester and Bennett. Yet the two that are new - Marshall and Jeffrey were doing the best. Marshall I understand, and I think Jeffrey is just a talented individual. So, taking that into account, you start to wonder well, shouldn't the guys that our coaches have been coaching up be getting at least a little better? And if not, shouldn't they have been replaced by now or their coaches have been replaced? Is no one watching the shop here?

Forte has not been running as well. As fans, we do not know how much his previous injury is hurting him. However, they keep sending him up the middle when we have a line that does not open up big holes. His best runs are to the outside. He isn't the kind of back that can make his own holes. Then when they use Bush, they run him up the middle also, but he gets better results. Then they stop using him. Once again, is no one watching?

Why do we have so many dropped passes lately? Why aren't the TE's getting better at catching? And when they don't why isn't either the TE or the coach being changed out?

So I guess what I am saying in the end is that we are all pointing out issues. But what is on my mind is this: Are the things we are all calling out the issues, or just the symptoms to deeper issues. My take at this point since it seems to be systemic and getting worse - or at the very least persisting without any relief is that these are only the symptoms and we have deeper issues. And further, based on the longevity, no one knows how to or has the ability to fix them.

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Originally Posted by Rakk

We have one weapon on the edge right now, Marshall. Forte is not running well, maybe he's hurt more than we think like two years ago. But, then again, the run blocking was not good, but has been better this year. Play calling in general. Poor execution on others...dropped passes, receivers not getting deep enough on third downs, etc. Basically, it a team (offense) effort why, not just the OL.

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Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Yeah. I see the same stuff, but when you start to peel the onion more, it becomes cloudy (or should I say, like all onions, starts to make you cry). We have had several WR's in the system for years - Hester and Bennett. Yet the two that are new - Marshall and Jeffrey were doing the best. Marshall I understand, and I think Jeffrey is just a talented individual. So, taking that into account, you start to wonder well, shouldn't the guys that our coaches have been coaching up be getting at least a little better? And if not, shouldn't they have been replaced by now or their coaches have been replaced? Is no one watching the shop here?

Forte has not been running as well. As fans, we do not know how much his previous injury is hurting him. However, they keep sending him up the middle when we have a line that does not open up big holes. His best runs are to the outside? Then when they use Bush, they run him up the middle also, but he gets better results. Then they stop using him. Once again, is no one watching?

Why do we have so many dropped passes lately? Why aren't the TE's getting better at catching? And when they don't why isn't either the TE or the coach being changed out?

So I guess what I am saying in the end is that we are all pointing out issues. But what is on my mind is this: Are the things we are all calling out the issues, or just the symptoms to deeper issues. My take at this point since it seems to be systemic and getting worse - or at the very least persisting without any relief is that these are only the symptoms and we have deeper issues. And further, based on the longevity, no one knows how to or has the ability to fix them.

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Turner and Martz had comparable offensive production to one another. Turner with Rex Grossman handing the ball off to Benson and Jones, and Martz with Cutler handing off AND throwing to Forte. Neither one is sifting through offers to run anyone else's O. Last I heard Turner was coaching QBs in Tampa, and who the hell knows what Mad Mike is up to. Now along comes Tice, and production has fallen. No he was never an OC, but he is an offense guy from the ground up. Played QB in college, solid pro career as a TE, has coached exclusively on the offensive side of the ball, and HC'd a pretty darn good offense in MN. So what happened?

I believe it does start with Tice. He stated before the year that he was keeping the scheme generally intact, but tweaked to player strengths and designed to exploit favorable match ups. Neither of those has really happened with any consistency. It's almost as if Tice is too timid, and afraid to make a mistake. Timidity and hesitation are sure fire methods to fail. The players don't play confidently as a unit, and I think they are reflecting their coach. Indecision and indecisiveness in the meeting rooms, and on the practice field will translate to game day. Maybe he knows this is his shot back at a HC job, and is trying too hard not to mess up. Right now he's failing IMHO.

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Originally Posted by 4DaBERS

100% correct. That being said, it could get a lot better. That's the thing about being average year after year after year; you're never going to be an abomination on the league, but you're never going to lift the trophy either. I authored an aphorism a few years back (I know, I'm kinda weird) that was a bit lengthy, but it started out like this "In a free market and capitalistic society, there is often a very fine line between success and failure, the latter of which is often precipitated by the presence of balls!" In other words, if you want to be a Champion, you can't sit around and wait for "average" to find lighting in a bottle, you've got to go out and find "Dynamic" to do the job. Champions don't sit on their hands when action is required. That said, you are right, this is not a guaranteed world; as Walter said, "Tomorrow is promised to no one", so in our search for Mr. Dynamic, we may get stuck with another "Mr. Average", or worse. But we won't know unless we try, meanwhile, someone else is grabbing "Mr. Dynamic".

Frankly, the more I write, the more I see this whole discussion as a microcosm of the funk this nation is in. Nobody wants to take a chance to get better, everybody just seems content with the status quo and let someone else worry about taking care of the problems of the world. Man, I'm sick of that shit. It's time for people to start standing up and demanding better from what they are spoon fed, but first they have to stand up and demand better from THEMSELVES and quit waiting for someone else to fix their problems for them. This whole Country used to be Mr. Dynamic, but it sure is turning into Mr. Average.

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Here's some things to consider, FWIW. I believe the Bears, under Emery, can get a Super Bowl out of Lovie. Lovie needs a guy like Emery who can get him better talent, more consistently, and can make certain he has 3 rock solid coordinators (Tice gone next year).

The flip side of the coin is you roll the dice that the Bears can gut the coaching staff & pick a new coach - who will bring in new coordinators and schemes that probably will require a significant change in players to excel in the new schemes.

Option 1 gives us a good chance of being in the Super Bowl soon. Option 2, you'd want to think about before you pull the trigger. It could end up with several years of what we had over the past 50 years - a lot of crappy teams. Years of losing seasons

Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't fire Lovie. I am saying you want to be dead sure before you pull that trigger. For those of us who have suffered through the last 50 years of countless bad and losing seasons, ya realize that we've had a lot of success under Lovie Smith. If you believe Jerry Angelo was the weak link that's held us back (I do), then let's see what Lovie can do with better talent fed to him on a consistent basis.

JAY GRUDEN is a smart offensive mind who will be the "next Sean Payton" to bring the Bears a SB Championship! Bring back Rivera for DC, when he gets fired from the Panthers.

Gruden as Head Coach.

Lovie's time is over. He sabatoged himself when he fired Rivera.

I've been a tepid supporter of Lovie, you can do better, but you can also do a lot worse, since the SB he's also had a lot more say in the personel and his staff. So problems w/OC/players/lack of talent/depth is partially on him. Anyone complaining about the OC's after RT has to look at Lovie as the reason the OC was here to begin with.

Also, I think a more in depth look at Lovie's record against the top NFC coaches is needed. he's not beaten GB but 2 times the last 4 years(none the last 2), which was one of his stated goals, he cannot beat Sea w/the Carroll, He's 2-1 I think against NO's, but 2 of those games were in Dec at Chicago, he got absolutely worked by Harbaugh in SF, Lovie's 1-2 against Atl, he's only had 1 shot at Coughlin but lost badly.

If he is struggling to beat these teams then there is little chance of him getting to the SB, and what's to believe if he cannot beat the top NFC coaches that he'll be able to take on the top AFC teams?

I don't think ownership will want to pay the money for Jon Gruden - but he prefers veteran QB and Jay Cutler is a QB that needs a mentor. Its too perfect of a situation for him. Plus Gruden is from the midwest and will love living in Chicago.

The Eagles and Chargers will also make a run at Gruden. Dallas might also be interested. But I think Chicago with Cutler is the best landing spot for Gruden.

Cowher seems more interested in the NY jobs or Carolina. I doubt he wants to live in Chicago at this point in his life, unless a ton of money and power is given to him.