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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01 
Alf, it's not garbage at all statistically the most sacks in the league are AR, Big Ben, then Cutler. Doesn't matter if it's coverage or jailbreak or whatever, it's the # of hits he is taken, just b/c one is a coverage and the other is a jailbreak doesn't mean one is getting hit harder. A coverage sack can be just as devastating as a jailbreak.
Hogwash . He quite simply usually has more time to operate - and yes jailbreak sacks are much more devastating circumstances to work under . It makes Cutler's comfort level alot lower every time he comes up to the line . THOSE , make Cutty's job much more difficult cuz it's more in the front of his mind . Alot of AR's sacks are after he has had time to run around a little and he often just flops / turtles .... so he doesn't get WALLOPED nearly as much .
AR has MORE time . Period . This is just more Packers subterfuge ( making it sound like he's under siege just as much ) . He isn't !
It amazes me every time you guys get suckered into believing this garbage .
Last edited by Alf The Ref; 12-12-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by
Alf The Ref Hogwash . He quite simply usually has more time to operate - and yes jailbreak sacks are much more devastating circumstances to work under . It makes Cutler's comfort level alot lower every time he comes up to the line . THOSE , make Cutty's job much more difficult cuz it's more in the front of his mind . Alot of AR's sacks are after he has had time to run around a little and he often just flops / turtles .... so he doesn't get WALLOPED nearly as much .
AR has MORE time . Period . This is just more Packers subterfuge ( making it sound like he's under siege just as much ) . He isn't !
It amazes me every time you guys get suckered into believing this garbage .
Not taking anything away from Rodgers (he's clearly an elite QB), but he's had far far more to work with surrounding him the last few years than Cutler has. That includes OC, WRs (by far), and even OL despite their recent woes. It is still better than our joke of an OL. The only indirect advantage Cutler has had has been a better RB corps and that has been negated this year by the Bears inability to even adequately run block, which is something the OL was at least competent at last year.
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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01 You know Rodgers gets hit more then Cutler does right? If the Bears are a leaking Sieve, the GB OL is a turnstyle w/a few missing arms.
Ok, you're right. I hereby modify my prior comment to read as follows:
Your OL is fine just as it is. The problem is Jay's not even close to being the same caliber as Rodgers and it obviously has nothing to do with the OL. Rodgers has many more sacks and spends around 40% of his time being "hurried", yet is much better in every possible 2012 QB-centric stat there is. He has more TD's, less INT's, higher QB rating, better completion percentage, more yards and access to better insurance products than Jay will ever be able to garner. If Jay ever goes back to Denver, they can save money by simply giving him an old "Tebow" jersey. I understand that next years FF leagues, concerned about accuracy, are going to start listing him as "
R. Leaf J. Cutler"
There. Feel better?
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According to a link from espn insiders posted on this very forum.. Rodgers is ranked sixth in the NFL in time from snap to sack. There are FIVE quarterbacks in the ENTIRE NFL who have more time to get rid of the ball that Rodgers. Also, I LIVE just north of the Wisconsin-Illinois state line, I get ALL the GB games whether I want them or not (I get the Bears games via over the air antenna). I even watch them if they don't conflict with a Bears game.
I have seen, with mine own eyes, A. Rodgers hold the ball for nine, that is correct NINE seconds in his own backfield before getting sacked. For those of you who think there is no difference you are wrong, wrong, wrong. GBs' Line protects far better than the Bears, it's not even close.
Now if you excuse me, I have a link to hunt down...
.. http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bear...-line-rankings.. There... Although apparently it was PFF and not ESPN, my bad.. Still pretty sure this article is linked elsewhere on this forum though.
In regards to whether the Bears should get a different (read cheaper) QB..... If that line of reasoning is followed to its' logical conclusion, then we should be saying that the Bears shouldn't be paying ANY player a lot of money if the team isn't going to be competitive, correct? The logic is that our QB cant be competitive, so get a cheaper model, should this apply to LB? or DE?, RB?, WR? This train of logic leads us in the direction of paying as little as possible ensuring that the team is uncompetitive, and stays that way. I don't know about anyone (other than packer fans), who want to see the Bears be the NFCs' equivalent of the Jacksonville Jaguars..
The ugly truth is whomever the Bears put in at QB, that poor bastard is gonna be hit, hurried, sacked, throwing off his back foot, running for his life on most every play, and improvising in an effort to get anything done. Odds are that anybody we find won't do it as well as Jay does. (side note: if the Bears ARE going to replace Jay with a crash test dummy, Tim Tebow can probably be had for his salary, maybe a late round draft pick at most.) If we replace the QB without improving the O-Line, all we will be doing is ruining another QB. This will come at the cost of getting rid of a QB we know to be capable of making all the throws expected of a top 10 QB (not saying he's there yet). With no guarantee of finding another one as good, and a poor history of developing QBs.
In fact, drafting a "punching bag" QB may well delay the acquisition of O-Line talent (if an early round pick is used on a QB).
Personally, I'm all in favor of spending both the first and second round draft picks on best available offensive linemen. Ideally, this would be in addition to finding a decent LT (someone ranked in high end of the middle third of the NFL at LT) to force Webb to either step up, or step off.
JABF said it best, "Fix the O-Line and Prosper."
No matter who plays behind the O-line, No matter who the HC or QB is, if the O-Line is not improved, then nothing else will improve either.
Last edited by XaosGorilla; 12-13-2012 at 03:46 AM.
"Professional Armchair Quarterback" and other oxymora.....
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I like the idea of finding serviceable QBs late as much as everyone here. I would love him like PHI had Kolb or GB got something for Flinn.
Our priority list is just too long to draft a QB in Round 1, 2 or 4 this year. Instead of wasting a 5th, 6th or 7th on a QB, we can also just sign a UDFA QB out of a not popular and hyped programm. As I'm not mistaken, Kellen Moore was a UDFA and in the end he knows how to win games. Will it translate to the NFL? I doubt it, but I'd have taken him over that Blanchard guy for sure.
Round 1 & 2 has to be OL & LB. We need to add talent. If we fire Smith and go with a 3-4, I think Emery will NOT look at a BU replacement. He will look at another Pass Rushing OLB. Briggs, Roach, DeCicco and even BU again as the MLBs.
We need 2 OTs and better CB depth. Moore is on his way out and the others are aging. We can't look at a QB because we need it.
Need another WR too, but not a FA. The guys that would help will get paid. The guys that won't help are already on the roster. Need to be cheap here and find a WR in Round 4 or 5. Need a Garza replacement in 1-2 years. Draft it this year that he can learn. Here goes your 5th or 6th.
We won't be lucky enough to get the next higher rated OL player like Brown again as UDFA. Guy has shown good potential when on the field. Same with Carimi as RG.
What about the TE? We fucking need to get a good TE and looking at the FA list, those guys will get money too. Even go and get Eifert with our 1st.
We can't expect to draft 2 OTs that will start for us and play good.
Cut Speath, Davis and maybe Hester.
sign 1 of Vollmer, Alberts or Long
sign Cook, Martellus Bennett or Keller
Cap Space would be gone and only room for those Okoye guys that will get cut and brought back.
A line with Garza as C, Brown and Carimi at OG and Vollmer + ? at OT would be better than what we have seen this year for most of the time. Keep Webb and draft a LT with the 1st. Better guy wins or they play in a bit of rotation. READ: 1st round OT would win that spot and Webb would be our swing tackle
would still need to draft a LB starter, Garza replacement, CB depth, WR + the pick we use for the OT in the 1st or 2nd. That's 5 of our 6 picks.
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German, we are not going to draft 2 or 3 OL in the draft, probably not 2 in the 1st 4 rounds. They will attack the OL 2 fold: FA and Draft, and I'm guessing 2 in FA since we already have a fairly young OL w/Louis/Carimi/Brown/Webb. So if you are only grabbing one OL and the only other need is MLB, why not grab a qb to backup Cutler next? Look at the last 2 years, hell 3 going back to the nfcn game, the backup is a need, and they better have potential.
Haine was also a UDFA. Ya you can get a matt moore, but more often in udfa you are going to get Haine. A young backup(#2) is not only an investment in case Cutler goes down, it's also a investment w/great odds of getting a return on investment via trade later on, see Cassle, Kolb, Cutler. You can get multiple high picks for a young qb that has shown potential, and that can continue to allow the Bears to build via the draft.
In order of importance(IMO) is OL, LB, backup qb, depth everywhere else. But depth players can be gotten via rounds 5-7 and UDFA.
We don't really need DE help, RB help.
Not a lot of DB help is needed, I think the problem this year is just the sheer amount of injuries; and Lovie tossing one so deep into the dog house he'll never see the light of day.
We need a 4th or 5th WR, a speed guy(only if Knox is not expected to return and I'll assume he's not) I don't see that as a higher need, or not being able to get that later in the draft either; but I could see that interchanging w/backup qb for 1 round.
The sweet spot for young qb's right now is 3rd-4th, you are getting a ton of potential in those rounds, a ton of value. Now I'm a huge proponent of BPA, and I won't change that, w/the caveat it's based on need. If the bpa is a DE, I hope they don't go there...ecspeically if it's an undersized "high motor" DE. But in rounds 1-7 I hope Emery just goes BPA based on OL/MLB/QB/WR, everything else.
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Well we could hire JA as a special QB scout.
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UDFA QBs are more like Hanie but 4th rounders are not? When it comes to those rounds, the chance of hitting a good player is never that high. Can always take a chance on a UDFA when you would draft a QB with your 5th, 6th or 7th
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To piggyback on what others are saying, the sack count doesn't tell the whole story here. The Packers give up some sacks, but they also protect much, much better on the whole. The Bears have a pretty good D-line. Maybe it's because they don't blitz much, but almost all their sacks are coverage sacks that take several seconds to develop. Yet, at least twice per game, Cutler is destroyed before he has a chance to turn around. Even when Cutler is able to throw the ball, he has to do it quickly because there is someone in his face within a second of the snap. The Packers throw the ball more (largely because they score more and get more firstdowns), so that give Rodgers more opportunities to get sacked. Really, on most of their pass plays, Rodgers is in no real danger. The only game this season in which the Bears' line did a really good job was the first Vikings game. I long for the day when Cutler's concern is getting rid of the ball before coverage sacks come
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Originally Posted by
JJ-30 Well we could hire JA as a special QB scout.
I think we have found our QB of the future - Josh Johnson. They already worked him out at Halas Hall. Here's the thread link.
JOSH JOHNSON - SACRAMENTO MOUNTAIN LIONS (UFL) STARTING QUARTERBACK:
By The Sports Xchange | The SportsXchange – 3 hours ago The Chicago Bears are apparently concerned enough about the health of quarterback Jay Cutler that they brought in two quarterbacks for tryouts. Josh Johnson and Stephen McGee worked out for the Bears on Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune reported.
Here's the info on Johnson:
Johnson plays for the UFL Mountain Lions. The league ran out of money and had to cancel the last half of their 2012 season (they ran out of money trying to pay for workmans comp insurance for the season).
The Mountain Lions lost all but 1 of their games. Johnson did have 2 touchdowns in their opening loss. If the league can scrape together enough money, they still want to play the final 4 games of the season next year. So Johnson may still have a job then.
Johnson played in the Pioneer Football Conference in college at the University of San Diego. He was a good QB there, and finished his senior year as a 3rd string FCS all american.
He sounds like the kind of guy Tice could gel into another Hanie, with a few years time. Picture a QB version of J'Marcus Webb.
Last edited by JustAnotherBearsFan99; 12-13-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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