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I see it exactly the same way. Did Emery pick the best DE? Time will tell, but if I were a betting man, I'd say no. As far as the line, he fixed the WR situation which one might say was as bad as the Ol situation. We have not seen any dividends from that, and that may in fact be Lovies undoing. Certainly it should be Tice's. I am not ready to lay any blame on Emery YET. But I am also wondering if he is any better at picking than JA. He did hit at least a triple and probably a home run with Jeffrey, and Shea is not a disaster. We'll see how it all plays out.
Originally Posted by
MPBears68 
On the first item, I agree. Thus far it looks as though Chandler Jones would have been the better DE pick. Still too early for a fair evaluation but a valid point based on this year alone.
The OL is a whole different story and how quickly we forget the situation as it was THEN. The OL was BETTER last year, especially at run blocking, than this this years version. And 2 starters were out hurt at the end and expected to return as "upgrades". Carimi was returning to man RT--no one knew or predicted he would struggle as much as he had recovering from that surgery. Louis was moving back his natural position at RG--and did so well as expected until recently hurt. Garza was a pro bowl alternate and was returning at Center. And CWilliams was returning from injury at LG (we thought) where he had played fairly well. Spencer, who had been decent at RG, and EWill, who had been likewise at LG, were returning for depth. The only major "hole" was Webb at LT.
There was NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH Emery could have done about that last offseason. There were NO FAs worth considering and the only draftee who could have immediately upgraded the position was Kalil who was picked 4th overall. You might say Emery should have drafted DeCastro instead in the 1st, but he is purely a LG and that didn't seem nearly as big a need as pass rush help was (remember we didn't know Izzy, Melton, and Wooten would all be playing as we'll as they have this year).
What happened? Well, Mike Tice starting fucking up as soon as TC opened. He took CWill's LG job away from him and refused to give it back after Webb won the starting LT job (largely be default). Instead, he moved Spencer to the left side where he was far less effective. He finally had to admit error by benching him for Rachal. Then he jacked that up too by benching Rachal after a disastrous OL game in which the TACKLES were clearly a much bigger weakness than the LG was. Rachal lost his shit and got canned from the team leaving nobody but EWill to play LG. Carimi struggled surprisingly too and was replaced. Then Louis and Spencer got hurt, the latter being little loss but the former being a major one. So....besides Garza, the only other OLman we have left playing his proper position from the opening day lineup is......Webb. Yeah, the same guy who Tice had mis-touted for years and was considered the "weakest-link" from the very beginning!
That's pretty jacked up, folks. So if your looking to lay blame, put it where it belongs:
Tice (+ Lovie by extension as his boss/mentor) AND Angelo for mismanaging and mis-acquiring respectively the OL personnel we are left with now. There's where the blame belongs.
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Ill say it again, Shea pick was horrific and i really didn't want to be right on this matter but I just don't see it
If I had to grade emery so far with that being said (very limited amount to look at) I would give him a A-
And then
Lovie-F
Tice- D+
Marenli- B
That's how I asses the blame
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Originally Posted by
Grizzblue Ill say it again, Shea pick was horrific and i really didn't want to be right on this matter but I just don't see it
If I had to grade emery so far with that being said (very limited amount to look at) I would give him a A-
And then
Lovie-F
Tice- D+
Marenli- B
That's how I asses the blame
How did Tice garner a D+? Did he get points for putting his name on the test w/that pencil of his?
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win your still messed up.
Restore the roar!
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 On the first item, I agree. Thus far it looks as though Chandler Jones would have been the better DE pick. Still too early for a fair evaluation but a valid point based on this year alone.
The OL is a whole different story and how quickly we forget the situation as it was THEN. The OL was BETTER last year, especially at run blocking, than this this years version. And 2 starters were out hurt at the end and expected to return as "upgrades". Carimi was returning to man RT--no one knew or predicted he would struggle as much as he had recovering from that surgery. Louis was moving back his natural position at RG--and did so well as expected until recently hurt. Garza was a pro bowl alternate and was returning at Center. And CWilliams was returning from injury at LG (we thought) where he had played fairly well. Spencer, who had been decent at RG, and EWill, who had been likewise at LG, were returning for depth. The only major "hole" was Webb at LT.
There was NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH Emery could have done about that last offseason. There were NO FAs worth considering and the only draftee who could have immediately upgraded the position was Kalil who was picked 4th overall. You might say Emery should have drafted DeCastro instead in the 1st, but he is purely a LG and that didn't seem nearly as big a need as pass rush help was (remember we didn't know Izzy, Melton, and Wooten would all be playing as we'll as they have this year).
What happened? Well, Mike Tice starting fucking up as soon as TC opened. He took CWill's LG job away from him and refused to give it back after Webb won the starting LT job (largely be default). Instead, he moved Spencer to the left side where he was far less effective. He finally had to admit error by benching him for Rachal. Then he jacked that up too by benching Rachal after a disastrous OL game in which the TACKLES were clearly a much bigger weakness than the LG was. Rachal lost his shit and got canned from the team leaving nobody but EWill to play LG. Carimi struggled surprisingly too and was replaced. Then Louis and Spencer got hurt, the latter being little loss but the former being a major one. So....besides Garza, the only other OLman we have left playing his proper position from the opening day lineup is......Webb. Yeah, the same guy who Tice had mis-touted for years and was considered the "weakest-link" from the very beginning!
That's pretty jacked up, folks. So if your looking to lay blame, put it where it belongs:
Tice (+ Lovie by extension as his boss/mentor) AND Angelo for mismanaging and mis-acquiring respectively the OL personnel we are left with now. There's where the blame belongs.
Our oline has been ranked as one of the worst for 3 years now. Is it fixed? No. End of story for me. When they do the post-mortem on the 2012 season, they'll find the "cause of death" was a lack of an oline.
Years of failure to recognize our Achilles heal. Utter blindness. If they don't fix the oline, it doesn't matter WHO the coaches are next year. Just more rearranging of the deck chairs IMHO.
Last edited by JustAnotherBearsFan99; 12-14-2012 at 10:24 PM.
Trestman - Kromer - Tucker - DeCamillis
I'm looking forward to seeing these guys coach. Hope they're good.
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 On the first item, I agree. Thus far it looks as though Chandler Jones would have been the better DE pick. Still too early for a fair evaluation but a valid point based on this year alone.
The OL is a whole different story and how quickly we forget the situation as it was THEN. The OL was BETTER last year, especially at run blocking, than this this years version. And 2 starters were out hurt at the end and expected to return as "upgrades". Carimi was returning to man RT--no one knew or predicted he would struggle as much as he had recovering from that surgery. Louis was moving back his natural position at RG--and did so well as expected until recently hurt. Garza was a pro bowl alternate and was returning at Center. And CWilliams was returning from injury at LG (we thought) where he had played fairly well. Spencer, who had been decent at RG, and EWill, who had been likewise at LG, were returning for depth. The only major "hole" was Webb at LT.
There was NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH Emery could have done about that last offseason. There were NO FAs worth considering and the only draftee who could have immediately upgraded the position was Kalil who was picked 4th overall. You might say Emery should have drafted DeCastro instead in the 1st, but he is purely a LG and that didn't seem nearly as big a need as pass rush help was (remember we didn't know Izzy, Melton, and Wooten would all be playing as we'll as they have this year).
What happened? Well, Mike Tice starting fucking up as soon as TC opened. He took CWill's LG job away from him and refused to give it back after Webb won the starting LT job (largely be default). Instead, he moved Spencer to the left side where he was far less effective. He finally had to admit error by benching him for Rachal. Then he jacked that up too by benching Rachal after a disastrous OL game in which the TACKLES were clearly a much bigger weakness than the LG was. Rachal lost his shit and got canned from the team leaving nobody but EWill to play LG. Carimi struggled surprisingly too and was replaced. Then Louis and Spencer got hurt, the latter being little loss but the former being a major one. So....besides Garza, the only other OLman we have left playing his proper position from the opening day lineup is......Webb. Yeah, the same guy who Tice had mis-touted for years and was considered the "weakest-link" from the very beginning!
That's pretty jacked up, folks. So if your looking to lay blame, put it where it belongs:
Tice (+ Lovie by extension as his boss/mentor) AND Angelo for mismanaging and mis-acquiring respectively the OL personnel we are left with now. There's where the blame belongs.
LG has been a need for the Bears since Ruben Brown played it. Chris Williams was just a warm body fill in who is inactive on the Rams.
Tice has been the worst thing to happen the offensive line in quite a while.
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First, I think MPBears remembers correctly. I would also add that Emery didn't have time to change the scouting staff before the draft. So Emery had to go with the same guys, and number of scouts as JA was using. The main difference was when it came time to "pull the trigger" the final say belonged to Emery.
Now, if Emery ignores (or gets nothing done for) the O-Line in Free Agency, and doesn't draft an O-Lineman before the fourth or fifth round...
THEN I will be getting on the "I blame Emery" bandwagon. If instead he gets a Left tackle, and drafts O-lineman in both the first and second rounds, that will prove to me the Emery is doing everything he can to get the bears o-line upgraded. We can disagree as to which positions are the greatest need.
Personally, I'm going to wait 2 or 3 more drafts and off seasons to evaluate Emery. If he "misses" on as many picks (particularly early round picks) as JA did, I will have the same problem as I did with JA. I suspect that we will see a better percentage of early draft picks staying with the team, and becoming starters than we did under JA. The only thing we can do is be patient, we will see soon enough.
"Professional Armchair Quarterback" and other oxymora.....
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Originally Posted by
XaosGorilla First, I think MPBears remembers correctly. I would also add that Emery didn't have time to change the scouting staff before the draft. So Emery had to go with the same guys, and number of scouts as JA was using. The main difference was when it came time to "pull the trigger" the final say belonged to Emery.
Now, if Emery ignores (or gets nothing done for) the O-Line in Free Agency, and doesn't draft an O-Lineman before the fourth or fifth round...
THEN I will be getting on the "I blame Emery" bandwagon. If instead he gets a Left tackle, and drafts O-lineman in both the first and second rounds, that will prove to me the Emery is doing everything he can to get the bears o-line upgraded. We can disagree as to which positions are the greatest need.
Personally, I'm going to wait 2 or 3 more drafts and off seasons to evaluate Emery. If he "misses" on as many picks (particularly early round picks) as JA did, I will have the same problem as I did with JA. I suspect that we will see a better percentage of early draft picks staying with the team, and becoming starters than we did under JA. The only thing we can do is be patient, we will see soon enough.
I agree, Xaos. Emery had little time, little new staff, and little player-availability-opportunity last year to upgrade the OL. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish he had taken Jones or DeCastro in round 1 but beyond that I cannot fault him. He did more in a few months to bolster the WR position than the previous 3 GMs did in all their years combined.
This offseason though he has no excuses. The OL is clearly the most pressing need by a large margin. Even if Carimi gets his RT shit together and Louis comes back strong next year at RG (my fingers are optimistically crossed on both of those), the left side is still an utter wasteland and our OC is nearing the end of his career. He needs to get us 2 new OL STARTERS/UPGRADES minimum and I wouldn't mind one bit if he choose to use FA and both picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft to assure that. I do think it is realistic for him to sign an available FA LT and add a stud interior guy in the 1st, leaving the 2nd for another position (LB?). That alone would be a major improvement. He definitely needs to "hit" on that first rounder for sure.
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High Fives / Like - 2 BEAR DOWN!, 0 Dislikes
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Originally Posted by
XaosGorilla First, I think MPBears remembers correctly. I would also add that Emery didn't have time to change the scouting staff before the draft. So Emery had to go with the same guys, and number of scouts as JA was using. The main difference was when it came time to "pull the trigger" the final say belonged to Emery.
Now, if Emery ignores (or gets nothing done for) the O-Line in Free Agency, and doesn't draft an O-Lineman before the fourth or fifth round...
THEN I will be getting on the "I blame Emery" bandwagon. If instead he gets a Left tackle, and drafts O-lineman in both the first and second rounds, that will prove to me the Emery is doing everything he can to get the bears o-line upgraded. We can disagree as to which positions are the greatest need.
Personally, I'm going to wait 2 or 3 more drafts and off seasons to evaluate Emery. If he "misses" on as many picks (particularly early round picks) as JA did, I will have the same problem as I did with JA. I suspect that we will see a better percentage of early draft picks staying with the team, and becoming starters than we did under JA. The only thing we can do is be patient, we will see soon enough.
Those are some good points. I also agree with your point that it takes 2 or 3 drafts and off-seasons to evaluate Emery completely. I just want to see him "all in" next year regarding fixing the offensive line. Even if the does that, it doesn't mean he's a good GM. We should watch him for a few seasons to see his entire "body of work" before we can really judge the guy. But "job-1" in my opinion is going all out to fix this offensive line.
And then, of course, he has other very important priorities upgrading other players & evaluating our coaches. But without fixing the oline, he's just peeing in the wind. Doesn't mean squat if he does't fix the oline FIRST.
Trestman - Kromer - Tucker - DeCamillis
I'm looking forward to seeing these guys coach. Hope they're good.
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Originally Posted by
short faced bear How did Tice garne
r a D+? Did he get points for putting his name on the test w/that pencil of his?
Solely on the fact he is a rookie OC and for the record I meant to type D - lol
Also not sure who's decision it was for certain to bench Rachal carimi and cwill but if Its Tice he gets an F-
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Originally Posted by
Grizzblue Solely on the fact he is a rookie OC and for the record I meant to type D - lol
Also not sure who's decision it was for certain to bench Rachal carimi and cwill but if Its Tice he gets an F-
It was TICE. Tice jacked CWill out of his LG starting job in PS for Spencer (how did that work out?). Not saying Williams was a star, he wasn't, but he was a damn better LG than Spencer was for sure. Then he screwed Rachal out of the job when it was the TACKLES who failed miserably in the San Fran game, not Rachal. Again, not defending Rachal losing his cool, but he was a damn better LG than Spencer who temporarily replaced him.
Carimi was playing like ass and deserved a "wake up call" but the way Tice totally eff'd up the LG position was criminal. That doesn't even scratch the surface on his Webb-love or his horrific play calling most of the year either. Tice has been a disaster all- around at OC and I fully admit I was wrong for believing he was a good choice last offseason.
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