Thread: If There's Any Reason At All For A Coaching Change This Is It..............

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

They can't score an offensive TD.

Maybe they are ready, but if it's not to score then he's getting them ready for something else.

If they cannot score an offensive TD.... is that due to lack of talent or poor coaching? If Lovie was more "fiery" would Marshall, Hester, Bennett and Jeffery not have dropped TDs which would have won those respective games?

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

The players like Lovie. I think they know his record sucks, and I think they would like for him to stay. If they win this, I think a big part would be the players rallying to try and help Lovie out.

That does not make him an effective coach. that does make him a very popular coach though.

So in other words, players win games, but coaches lose games?

If he makes this error this year, yes. The man had two weeks on the job to fix the OL, the WR, the QB, TE, and S situations. Come on, how much can you put on the guy. I'm ready to blame him for this year if he doesn't fix it. He is not made of teflon. However, as of right now with how much he had to accomplish, I am very happy with him. I am on the fence leaning on not liking his choice of Shea. Other than that for his first year I am happy. That might change.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

So... Emery is at fault then?

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

If he makes this error this year, yes. The man had two weeks on the job to fix the OL, the WR, the QB, TE, and S situations. Come on, how much can you put on the guy. I'm ready to blame him for this year if he doesn't fix it. He is not made of teflon. However, as of right now with how much he had to accomplish, I am very happy with him. I am on the fence leaning on not liking his choice of Shea. Other than that for his first year I am happy. That might change.

He has done a good job, but even an outsider should have known there was something horribly wrong with the offensive line. He listened to Lovie, who believed Tice. That is all I am saying. He did a great job getting Marshall... and maybe Jeffrey though.

The chicken and the egg. Say it's poor players. Who is to blame? Some Lovie supprters would like to believe he had nothing to do with player selection. Then you could say Lovie was not at fault. I am not of that mindset. I think it is impossible he had no say. So we come back to it being a coashes issue there also. This has been rehashed MANY times. No one is going to change their beliefs on that.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

If they cannot score an offensive TD.... is that due to lack of talent or poor coaching? If Lovie was more "fiery" would Marshall, Hester, Bennett and Jeffery not have dropped TDs which would have won those respective games?

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

The chicken and the egg. Say it's poor players. Who is to blame? Some Lovie supprters would like to believe he had nothing to do with player selection. Then you could say Lovie was not at fault. I am not of that mindset. I think it is impossible he had no say. So we come back to it being a coashes issue there also. This has been rehashed MANY times. No one is going to change their beliefs on that.

Maybe Lovie did, maybe he didn't. But, my point was, who is to blame for those dropped passes? If they catch them, Bears are still in first with a few more wins under their belt and we are not having this discussion. Lovie has not been a great coach, but I feel he gets too much blame, and the players not enough.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

He listened to Lovie, who believed Tice.

Benji - we agree here. I think that makes him part of the problem. Call bullshit when you have to. Supposedly a HC has more experience than anyone one. If we could see bullshit, why couldn't he? And if he could, is his style of management "back your people no matter what" the best style? I'm really trying to be objective here. I don't dislike Lovie. Quite the opposite. Everything I have ever read about him says he is a great person. His players love him. Ownership loves him.

But I'm not going to marry the guy. I don't care if he likeable. He needs to be able to manage, be able to tell when a situation needs to be addressed regardless of what he is being told, have his players play with heart every game - not just when his job is on the line. He needs to show some creativity and the ability to win coaching chess matches with elite coaches. He is being paid as an elite coach. His perfromance needs to also be at an elite level.

This is not about the person Lovie. It is about the coach Lovie. And yes, while I would like to see a change, I am scared as to maybe getting someone worse. But I don't think that should paralyze you from trying to make things better.

But Benji - we keep going round and round. The players drop the ball. Not the coaches. But the coaches need to be sure that players that can catch are actually catching the ball. They are also responsible to be sure that they bring in people that ARE able to catch the ball. People make mistakes. When they make a mistake and they do bring in a person that can't catch the ball and they can't seem to coach them up enough to do so (players or coaches or both here?), then they need to sit that person and go on to the next one. You can't say this is player performance and absolve the coaches completely. That is a myopic view. Otherwise, either you don't address the root cause or you have to go and get 53 star players like Marshall that don't need coaching help to succeed. That is not realistic. Coaches need to pick good players, coach the ones up that have potential and move away from the ones that don't have the potential. The dropped balls are epidemic. It is not just one person. You have a systemic issue here.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

Maybe Lovie did, maybe he didn't. But, my point was, who is to blame for those dropped passes? If they catch them, Bears are still in first with a few more wins under their belt and we are not having this discussion. Lovie has not been a great coach, but I feel he gets too much blame, and the players not enough.

I waited for both responses so we dont keep going from one point to the other.

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Benji - we agree here. I think that makes him part of the problem. Call bullshit when you have to. Supposedly a HC has more experience than anyone one. If we could see bullshit, why couldn't he? And if he could, is his style of management "back your people no matter what" the best style? I'm really trying to be objective here. I don't dislike Lovie. Quite the opposite. Everything I have ever read about him says he is a great person. His players love him. Ownership loves him.

But I'm not going to marry the guy. I don't care if he likeable. He needs to be able to manage, be able to tell when a situation needs to be addressed regardless of what he is being told, have his players play with heart every game - not just when his job is on the line. He needs to show some creativity and the ability to win coaching chess matches with elite coaches. He is being paid as an elite coach. His perfromance needs to also be at an elite level.

This is not about the person Lovie. It is about the coach Lovie. And yes, while I would like to see a change, I am scared as to maybe getting someone worse. But I don't think that should paralyze you from trying to make things better.

Lovie is too much of a players coach, I wont deny that one bit. He stands by his guys, and I hope Emery is not the same way.

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

But Benji - we keep going round and round. The players drop the ball. Not the coaches. But the coaches need to be sure that players that can catch are actually catching the ball. They are also responsible to be sure that they bring in people that ARE able to catch the ball. People make mistakes. When they make a mistake and they do bring in a person that can't catch the ball and they can't seem to coach them up enough to do so (players or coaches or both here?), then they need to sit that person and go on to the next one. You can't say this is player performance and absolve the coaches completely. That is a myopic view. Otherwise, either you don't address the root cause or you have to go and get 53 star players like Marshall that don't need coaching help to succeed. That is not realistic. Coaches need to pick good players, coach the ones up that have potential and move away from the ones that don't have the potential. The dropped balls are epidemic. It is not just one person. You have a systemic issue here.

We had players out there who could catch, and have been the most reliable. Leave hester out, since he is not a WR..... and should not be playing.

If Bennett, Marshall and Jeffery catch their respective TDs, are we having this fire Lovie debate? We would be at 11 wins. And the playoffs would be a lock. If one of them makes their catch, we are in the playoffs, and we are still likely having this debate... but yes, you are right. It is the coaches responsibility and he will need to make sure the proper players in the right position when you need them to be. That is a coaching problem, but when your three most reliable WR drop TDs, not much that can be done. But Lovie still gets the blame, right or wrong.