Thread: If There's Any Reason At All For A Coaching Change This Is It..............

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Benji -

Here is where I diverge from most people. I would say that 99% would say that they would not be having this discussion if we were at 11 wins. Including most everyone that would prefer that Lovie be replaced.
In fact, I would still prefer that we look at to other alternatives, regardless. I am not saying I am right, but at least I will give you my reasoning.

I have been watching Lovie. Lovie needs a great supporting cast to be successful. He needs a great DC, STC, and OC to do the heavy lifting. IMO, what is his value then? How can he be considered a great (top 5 coach) given those circumstances?

I consider a coach to be elite when HE makes the people around him better, rather than the other way around. Harbough, Bilichick, Walsh -- the great ones really brought the best out of their coaches and their players. You take away those coaches and the team tanks. Performance goes down. IMO, Lovie needs the kind of coordinators around him so that even if Love is not there, they are the ones driving the team anyway and it doesn't skip a beat.

Now many will disagree, and that's fine. I'm not saying that IS the truth, but I AM saying it IS the truth as I see it.

I have gone from being a Lovie fan in the early years to thinking we have been in need of a change for some time. Right or wrong, that is how I see it.

Lovie does need great coordinators for there to be success with him as HC.

Obviously, he's no Bill Belichik or Walsh, but a mid-tier coach. But if we had a solid OC, we'd have all 3 coordinators in place for Lovie to be successful. If he stays here, then I'm hoping Emery can help him acquire the resources to be successful - get him a solid OC, and get an offensive line - and generally upgrade our overall talent over the next few years. I believe that is doable. But Lovie is going to have to listen to Emery. If he does, then I think we have a bright future. If not, then Lovie will be let go and we'll (hopefully) get a good coach.

The Bears have a horrid track record in hiring head coaches. Even Ditka, much as I love the guy, was not much of a head coach. He had the talent to have a dynasty, but fizzled after '85, and darn near buried New Orleans as coach there.

So, to me, I'm not thinking a new HC is an automatic "good thing" and we could end up worse than we are. A lot worse. I base that on what I've seen the organization do over the past many years. But who knows, maybe they'll get it right next time.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

A head coach trusts the men he hires to give him a proper evaluation of the talent they control. Tice told him the line was fine, so Lovie took him at his word, and relayed the message to his boss, Emery. Emery (like Lovie) chose to listen to and believe Mike Tice.

As far as the WR and TE goes, Emery saw what we saw. He chose to listen to Lovie, when he SHOULD have known otherwise. The WR... again, Emery did all he could to improve them in a year. Brought in Marshall and drafted the injury prone Jeffery.

But, if Marshall (a Emery acquisition) and Jeffery (another Emery acquisition) caught TD passes a week ago, or Bennett (a Angelo over-paid re-signed player) caught one two weeks ago caught the TDs thrown at them, Bears would have a much better record.

If Cutler would stop throwing to Marshall every damn play, and threw to others..... like FORTE once in a while perhaps Bears would be playing better as well. Not every play is called for Marshall, Cutler audibles and throws to the only one he fully trusts.

That is not on Lovie, not really on Tice either.

Weak arguments Benji. All of it. Very weak! The OC is 100% responsible for his offense and the HC is responsible for the performance of the entire team including the coaches under him.

Football teams aren't structured any differently than any other business is and when the job doesn't get done a manager is replaced not the entire production or sales staff. If you don't understand this you don't understand management theory period so save us the lectures.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

I hear that argument all the time. Please explain to me what you mean by "he didn't have his players ready"

It means exactly what it says in plain English Benji. The team isn't intellectually, psychologically, or emotionally prepared to win. Let me break it down for you.

Intellectual Prep: They know and understand their game plan and that of their opponent so that they are able to go out and mentally and physically execute well.

Psychological Prep: The have confidence in their coaches, the game plan, their teammates and their combined ability to execute it and win. The believe in themselves and the system they're playing in.

Emotional Prep: Their confidence and trust in one another is on a knife edge. They play at top speed and with the confidence and emotions of a winner. There is no let down. Mistakes are forgotten. The team is never beat until the final gun sounds.

Does that look anything like what we've been seeing this past month or so? No, I didn't think do either.

Originally Posted by JJ-30

All this shows is why we need to keep Lovie and the DC and why we need a real OC.

JJ if it can be done that way I'm all for it but if not then let's get on with it and clean house. Another year like this isn't getting us where we need to go.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

So.... if the Bears beat the packers, then did Lovie do a good job of "coaching them up" or was it the players "winning despite their head coach"?

And did Lovie motivate Marshall? After all, he was showing "fire and passion" when calling out packer players.... or did he do that on his own?

Yeah, yeah, yeah let's have this conversation on Monday. That's one big IF you're talking about and having lost what, 8 straight games to them, I'd say the odds aren't in Lovie's favor.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

2011 fade was due primarally on Angelo not having a reliable backup QB, RB. You win ONE of those games we lost after Cutler went down, we get to the playoffs.

This year.... this year is different. Lovie gets some blame, Emery gets some blame, and the players get some blame. The offensive players for the most part. Dropping TDs, dropping passes, fixating on ONE WR most of the time, not keeping your QB on his feet.... all play into the Bears sucking at this present moment in time.

Had Cutler not been knocked out in the Houston game, I think we win. SF..... not sure if Cutler could have saved us..... Seattle.... how many TDs were lost do to drops? Same with the Vikings loss. These games have been winnable, and should have been wins.

Benji I'm gonna make this ultra simple. In the five games we've lost the Bears have scored a total of 54 point. Seattle hung more than that on the Cards last Sunday and we had just 3 points short of that in the Tennessee game alone and much of that thanks to the defense.

Fifty-four fuckin' points in five losses! That's an average of 10.8 points per game. A TD, a FG and change for a buck! I don't care how good a defense you've got you're not gonna beat anybody scoring 10 points a game! The '85 Bears couldn't have won with an offense like that and they didn't. The Bears had the top scoring offense in the NFL in '85. This defense also does not dominate like the '85 Bears either.

I don't care whether it's missed blocks, fumbles, dropped passes, picks or what ever you chose to look at as an excuse all that shows is a total lack of execution and THAT is more than just the players responsibility. The coaches prepare players each week for the game and they share in that responsibility so all of your trite comments about Lovie or Tice not being the ones dropping passes or missing blocks is for naught. They are equally responsible if not more.

Tice will have to be the sacrificial goat. There's no other option. Maybe if he hadn't oversold everyone from the Bears front office to the fan on the street on his "explosive offense" and his brilliance in devising the apparently invisible "Hester Package" he might not be in the hot seat as deeply as he is but he is. End of story.

The coaches are responsible for the performance of the team on the field. They selected that group of players and coached them and prepared or under prepared them for every game. The front office and ownership are responsible for those coaches and the product they put on the field each year and if you look around you'd see that Bears fans aren't very happy with the results and are crying for a change.

I don't see where Phil Emery has much choice but to respond to that. Oh there's a small chance the team will eek out two wins in the next three games and finish 10-6 but for a team that was 7-1 five weeks ago and in control of the NFCN second place might just as well be last place. This will be three years in a row Lovie and his guys have stepped on their dicks when crunch time came and choked. How many more chances do you think he deserves?

My guess is that Lovie will be retained but not given and extension just yet. I can live with that provided we see some massive changes in offensive coaching and player personnel this offseason. This isn't about Cutler or Marshall. They're the only ones of that entire offense that are playing up to 110% of their potential week after week and we're expecting way too much to think that alone is enough to win against good teams. And it hasn't been, has it?

Everything you've posted is nothing more than a pile of excuses that's intended to disguise the reality that the Bears offense stinks.....period! Forget the stats. There's only one that's of any importance and it's the one I posted above. An average of 10.8 points per game in those five losses. That's all that's important because that's why we lost those games. There is no other reason!

Regardless of what Emery decides to do about Lovie we have to replace Tice with someone who knows how to run and offense and play call well enough to put more points of the board than that. If you take away the defensive scores this offense isn't even averaging 20 points per game. You can't win a championship with that little scoring.

Maybe in Lovie's world you can but not in the real one. We have to make a change this offseason and it needs to be a big one.