Lovie, Cutler and the Green Bay Packers

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12-17-2012, 02:25 PM
Rogelio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

...he was a 20 pick guy in Denver w/a great OL and plenty of weapons.

False. In his third season, at age 25, he threw 18 picks, along with 25 TDs and 4,100 yards. Also, since he was 25 and it was his second full season, he was reasonably expected to improve upon that. There are undoubtedly things Jay needs to do himself to improve, but his numbers getting much worse since the trade are a mostly result of three men: Jerry Angelo for not giving him guys who can catch balls or block for him, and Mike Martz and Mike Tice from bumbling and terrible playcalling.
12-17-2012, 02:44 PM
JustAnotherBearsFan99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

I think it's a coupling of the 3. Capers/Rodgers has Lovie/Cuters number. Capers knows how to stop Cutler, and Rodges and that O has no issues w/Lovie's D. That 7-3 was against an old at the end of his career Farve and it shows. I said it in another thread, GB has no fear of the Bears, of Lovie's D or of any O that involves Cutler/Marshal/Forte. They simply shut down Forte and make Cutler throw knowing that he'll eventually turn it over b/c he doesn't trust(deservedly so) any other wr.

JABF, fact is fact, Cutler(OL is not the only problem so please act like that is going to be his salvation) more weapons will not make Cutler throw less picks, he was a 20 pick guy in Denver w/a great OL and plenty of weapons. Cutler NEEDS to improve his own play, and the only way I see that happening is w/a strong O minded HC that can convense him to be smarter and have better mechanics.

I'm not disputing that Cutler needs to do better. Just pointing out that there are HUGE issues here besides Cutler. Oline, coaches, play calling, no receiving TE's, a new OC and offensive scheme every year or two, until this season we had one of the worst WR corps in football, Jerry Angelo providing the talent, etc etc etc......so while Cutler needs to do better, I think there's a lot of moving parts here that are major contributing factors.

Am I missing something?
12-17-2012, 02:48 PM
JustAnotherBearsFan99

What the hell is wrong with us? We have all of these MAJOR problems and we want to blame Jay Cutler? One post today talked about how Kyle Orton was the answer - a leader. Have we all lost our minds?

The reasons for our failures are really pretty straight-forward. No rocket science here. We can win with Cutler. But yes, we'll need an offensive line, a better OC than Tice, maybe a head coach that's better. TE's who can actually, you know, CATCH a football, etc etc etc. I actually feel sorry for Cutler coming to a crap team like the Bears (offense). When he landed here we had NOTHING in place to support a franchise quarterback.

The almighty Hester was our #1 at one point. How crazy is that?
12-17-2012, 02:48 PM
The Benjamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHATETHEBEARS

I think this is wrong. I think he's 9-10 against the Packers actually.

I am counting the playoff game as well
12-17-2012, 03:02 PM
The Benjamin

All I am saying, is if people want to hold Lovie's feet to the fire because his record against Green Bay, you have to so the same with Cutler. His starts against our biggest rival are crap, and there is no way you can pin it all on coaching. If it was Grossman putting up stats like that people would be offering to drive him out of town because he cannot get the job done against Green Bay.
12-17-2012, 03:04 PM
The Benjamin

Is it just a coincidence Lovie's record took a deathblow the year Cutler came here? Likely, but the timing does make you wonder
12-17-2012, 03:06 PM
JustAnotherBearsFan99

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

All I am saying, is if people want to hold Lovie's feet to the fire because his record against Green Bay, you have to so the same with Cutler. His starts against our biggest rival are crap, and there is no way you can pin it all on coaching. If it was Grossman putting up stats like that people would be offering to drive him out of town because he cannot get the job done against Green Bay.

Benj, you make a good point. I'm not trying to argue that at all. Cutler does share some blame here. Definitely. But I don't think we even KNOW what we have in Jay Cutler, until we get:

1. A decent offensive line

2. A decent offensive coordinator (and somebody who can call better plays)

3. A decent offensive scheme

4. TE's who can, you know, actually CATCH a football
12-17-2012, 03:23 PM
Riczaj01

Funny I remember people saying that about Rex and Orton to the JABF, what do we have w/these guys until all the pieces are in place. Again I don't look at cutler as the primary problem, he's not, but he IS a piece of the problem. I'm not saying drop him, he's still better then what we've had(although is that even a good comparision). Other qb's get sacked/hit more then Cutler but don't melt down in games(not talking about shoving someone) like him. He has at least 2 reliable weapons in Forte and Marshal, and a few decent ones in Jeffery/Bennett/Adams. And a few not so in Davis/Hester. But he misses open guys, he has games where his throws are all over the place. To act like he's NOT part of the problem is ignorning that he is also the MOST imporant guy on the field on O. when he has a bad game there is no one out there that will save him. He HAS to be better, and an OL/WR's/TE's/OC are not going to solve that if Cutler doesn't get his mechanics and decision making in line.

You're right Rog btw, not 20 int's, 20 TO's(techncally 18 and 19 w/fumbles) sorry if I rounded up. But in Today's NFL you cannot be a 1 for 1 TD to int guy, or anywhere close to that. Rogers had those type of numbers his rookie year; and after that no less then a 2 to 1 td to turn over ratio, hell one year he was over 4 to 1. That is what you need to be constantly in contention for teams in the NFL, not great one year, drop off the next, in another year out the next. Turn overs in a league that has made it so easy on the O are literally going to end the teams season early more often then not. It's one thing to have an off year or 2 but when it becomes a trend there is something else going on. And Cutler is well known for having his mechanics break down and for making poor decisions; Charles Woodson told you they just sit back and wait for him to throw them the ball...why do you think he said that? B/c it's true.
12-17-2012, 03:45 PM
4DaBERS

I think I'm sitting here shaking my head with JABF on this one. People blaming Cutler? Ya know, the guy ain't perfect, and he's kind of a prick, but with all the crap we've seen from this offense to blame him for more than typical share of blame for a good QB in the league is, well, I can't even come up with a comparison that ridiculous right now. How many of those picks have been because receivers have quit on their routes (see Johnny Knox I don't know how many times)? How many have been because receivers have slipped in their cuts (see Alshon Jeffery last week)? How many picks has he had because Hester wouldn't even attempt to fight for the ball like a Pro Wide Receiver? Some of those picks have been because of bad throws by Cutler, but a larger percentage is poor wide receiver play and several have been due to poor O-Line play. If you just remove a handful because of these facts (and there have been far more than a handful), then his numbers start looking a LOT better. These have been problems we've had for a long time and a LOT of it goes back to talent evaluation and coaching/development.

God, Knox used to drive me nuts when he would run a slant and stop. How many times did the defender covering him just step in front of him for the pick? I can count at least 3 in my memory alone.
12-17-2012, 04:42 PM
Riczaj01

4DaBears, at some point you have to look at the guy on the field and how he performs, Is RGIII, or Russell Wilson surrounded top to bottom w/top end talent? How about AZ? How many elite players do they have for their QB to be bailed out by; and their qb's are getting killed. Wash/Sea having rookie qb's playing great. Oh but it's the OC then right? At some point you have to look at the play on the field and say; okay maybe it's him. Not it IS him, but maybe it is. How many playoffs has he gotten his teams to in Den and Chi? How many playoff game has he won? Wanna know the difference between him and Eli? Eli has found way to be on a team that won 2 sb's. Before he won his first, and even 2 after he won that one, he was on the hot seat, and NY wasn't sure he was the guy. And yet we should exanurate Cutler from any blame here? What is the real difference between Cutler and Romo(who is also constantly on the hot seat in Dallas? What the Dallas supposed great talent(people down here say it's over rated) Does he have some great OC that makes his life better; or a OL that doesn't have him running for his life?(no). And he's grilled constantly by the national media as having great talent, but prone to stupid mistakes. Same w/Cutler, he has great talent, but is prone to stupid mistakes.

You ask how many of his int's are on his WR's, well no one knows that but the coaches, wr's and himself. But we know that one yesterday was 100% on him, the coach said it, Hester said it, and Cutler said it. And that was really the game breaker wasn't it.

I'm stunned that somehow Cutler is untouchable after 1 season of playoff success. Again no one is saying he needs to be cut, traded or replaced, but at some point the guy has a MO, and it started in Den, where he had a great OL, a great set of WR's and a good Offensive minded HC to set him up. He was still prone to lose big div games(1-4 vs the chargers). And he was essentially a 1 for 1 td to turn over guy, and that was w/the all the help in Denver. So now you want me to say that all his issues are now only b/c of the OC, and WR's and OL; it's just not true.

I'm all for keeping Jay around for as long as possible, but I'm also understanding there is inherent risk there; that he might be more Romo/Flacco then Eli, and might never be as good as guys like Rogers, Schaub, Brees, Peyton even if he does have that potential. No one saying that Cutler has to improve is saying that the OL, OC, HC, or WR/TE's are an issue. No one is absolving them, but you cannot absolve Cutler either. He is the QB, He is the one getting paid like a franchise guy; and those guys take more blame and get more credit then they ever deserve. I'm willing to keep him around b/c if Eli can win 2 sb's then why not Cutler? They are very similar and turn over prone, but that means having a complete team around him, and having all the luck fall on the Bears throughout the season. So I'm also very aware that it might never happen.

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