Thread: Lovie, Cutler and the Green Bay Packers

Benj, that hypothetical is practically impossible. The Div almost always, at least in the farve era forward, running through GB, so if you don't beat them you're not getting the div titles, and if you are not getting the div titles there is a good chance you are going to have to face them in the post season to get to the SB.

If Lovie had one that 06 SB, would we still be asking if he should be fired right now? The answer I believe is yes b/c he is having issues beating GB and getting into the post season now.

Benj, GB win/loss is not the issue, it's what it means and it means you are likely not getting to the playoffs. And he has missed the playoffs to often, or has limited his ability to get back to the SB. Why? b/c he is getting beat by GB and therefore has to hope for a WC, and when he does get in he gets beat by GB(NFCCG).

There would be no conversation about Lovie being fired if he was just making it to the playoffs and even only winning 1 game. But that isn't happening.

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Benj, GB win/loss is not the issue, it's what it means and it means you are likely not getting to the playoffs. And he has missed the playoffs to often, or has limited his ability to get back to the SB. Why? b/c he is getting beat by GB and therefore has to hope for a WC, and when he does get in he gets beat by GB(NFCCG).

There would be no conversation about Lovie being fired if he was just making it to the playoffs and even only winning 1 game. But that isn't happening.

In 2001 Packers swept the Bears. Bears won the division
2007 Bears swept the packers. Packers won the division.

Proof that you dont NEED to beat them to win the division. It helps, but not mandatory. What it means, is a win or a loss. Yes, it is a big rivalry, but in the grand scheme of things, its just another win or loss.

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

2 times in 10 years, ya exception not the rule.

Never said it was the rule. Just said it was possible, which was the jumping point for the hypothetical. People could use the same line for the Lions or Vikings in order to call for the firing of a coach.

People using the line of him not being able to beat the packers as cause to fire him is a joke. Say that he isn't making the playoffs enough, that he had nine years to win the Super Bowl and failed, that his offense is a joke. Those are all more valid reasons to fire Lovie than his record against the packers. Because as I pointed out starting the thread, if you are using record against the packers, I gave more than enough reason to send Cutler packing. Worse winning percentage against the packers than Lovie has (and his stats show that he was a big reason for those losses). Not the sole reason mind you, but a big reason.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

In 2001 Packers swept the Bears. Bears won the division
2007 Bears swept the packers. Packers won the division.

Proof that you dont NEED to beat them to win the division. It helps, but not mandatory. What it means, is a win or a loss. Yes, it is a big rivalry, but in the grand scheme of things, its just another win or loss.

I can't believe we are disputing the elevated importance of divisional games, especially divisional games against the de facto divisional leader. Really???

Yeah, you can theoretically go 0-2 against them and still win the division (and get a home playoff game, possible bye, etc, etc), but in order to do that you have to be AT LEAST 3 games better than them in the other 14. Not likely.

Originally Posted by MPBears68

I can't believe we are disputing the elevated importance of divisional games, especially divisional games against the de facto divisional leader. Really???

Yeah, you can theoretically go 0-2 against them and still win the division (and get a home playoff game, possible bye, etc, etc), but in order to do that you have to be AT LEAST 3 games better than them in the other 14. Not likely.

Again, see 2007 and 2001 for the two most recent times it has happened. Yes, divisional games are important, I never said they weren't.

And you don't think the Lions/Vikings coaches aren't/weren't on the hot seat this year?

Again I said IF Lovie had made the playoffs over the last 5 years consistantly this would not be an issue, but he hasn't. IF he didn't beat GB, and GB had been so bad as to not win the div then and the Bears did there would not be an issue. BUT he hansn't. He hasn't and reason he hasn't is b/c he cannot beat GB and therefore hasn't been able to win the div, and therefore has had to rely on luck to get in via the wildcard. There in lies the problem. Not beating GB has caused him to miss the playoffs, and missing the playoffs is now possibly going to cost him his job.

Let me break it down simpler. Lovie Smith's job is on the line b/c he cannot make it to the playoffs. Job=Playoffs. There are 2 ways to get to the playoffs, Div Champ(100% of playoffs ie 100% chance to keep job) or WC(2 in 5 shot to make the playoffs ie 2 in 5 shot of keeping job). Chances of winning Div w/out beating GB(1 in 5 shot, ie 1 in 5 shot of keeping your job).

So what is the best chance of keeping your job? Winning the Div, what is the best way to win the Div? Beat GB. This ends of your hypothetical argument.