Thread: Question for the O-Line watchers...

Xaos - no, not convinced of that either. Last year the line was more cohesive. He moves his guys around too much and he goes with how he thinks the players should play based on their physical build rather than how they play. Williams should have been allowed to continue at G - he was playing well there.

Then the T's both play horrible during the 49'ers game and he benches Rachal. Rachal loses it and now he is not on the line any more. We could have used him and IMO, he should have benched Webb way before benching Rachal if he was looking at performance during that game. Too many bone headed mistakes and a line that is better but I can tell they will never be coached up to a good standard. Pretty much like the rest of the team.

Originally Posted by XaosGorilla

I realize that I'm likely in the minority opinion on this, but I have been thinking that Tice may well be a good o-line coach, but that being OC he no longer has the time he needs to work with the o-line. The result of him trying to do too much being that he does neither well...

Don't worry, once you get done tarring and feathering me, I wont mention it again.

Originally Posted by Grizzblue

Well from my experience and what I can see it is hard to tell since none of us know the schemes

BUT I hate to say it but a lot looks like a lack of coaching and discipline

Flase starts-coaching
Inability to react to a stunt-coaching

Other than that center IMO should be as big if not a bigger concern than any other position, alot of our inability to get to the second level falls on garza (like I said we don't know schemes so no way to be sure)

Obviously we can't replace 5 guys in one year I do think that we focus tackle in FA and the best gaurd and or center in round one or two barring T'eo being available

On my honest opinion OC and OG are hurting is more than our tackles (after Louis went down) I say this because

Our inability to punch jack shit in, or run inside at all....what I see is a bunch of overmatched guys inside starting with our aging center. Usual situations our problem is no soul on the line is touching anyone past level one who run free and make plays for minimal gains. In a usual situation (again none of us know for certain) I would assume that we have some kind of combo block from the most interior down linemen (1-3) to the interior or backside linebacker (00-30) assuming we have someone to account for the play side backer

In most instances with no line pulling that would essentially mean the gaurd
is on level one and our C is "post and peeling" to the backer

Well that's a great idea except our center instead just "posts and gets mauled" so we waste two on one (incredibly with still no push) and forte gets killed

When this block fails its on no one person, but we clearly need improvement to get to level two or we will never be successful

Another thing I notice is we run a lot of power plays with the backside gaurd pulling into b or c and leading, and Rachel was actually good at that but seemly everyone else is utterly pathedict and usually don't even make it to the hole let alone block anyone (I've seen a few running into our other gaurd who's getting his ass kicked multiple times)

In pass pro it is very deceiving because in most cases you have a 3 on 2 inside since we keep help in on outside blitz packages but what I see is that even when our outside pro takes a shit in front of our eyes our interior guys are unable to get a stalemate and leave a lane to step up into or even allow cutler a line of sight

Realistically I think that RG is first priority then C and then if we still have options available we can look for a LT (big FA avail. Obviously void this as third priority)

With this in mind I think Carimi gets another shot in camp/Pre season at RT (keep in mind he's basically a rookie) simply because he does have potential AND we can't find 5 new starters in one offseason

With this said we need 1-2 FAs and 1-2 picks within first 3 rounds IMO to equal 3 quality players in the best manner we can muster up

I'm conclusion from what crappu broadcast angles we get I think a major adress is needed inside and first, tackle actually being second, to equal 3 quality players. Due to the sheer number of needs for one offseason we will have to hope for Carimi to get his shit together with an injury free offseason and pray Louis comes back okay in order to have a revamped oline. If our right side can't get it together than the final stage of the revamp will have to be the following year to end up with 5 new starters

Just my 2 cents from what my experience is relating to what I'm seeing (yes i may be a bit biased I played C and now coach C/G specifically)

Hope I didn't bore anyone lol

Thank you, Grizz, for the excellent analysis. Often we have focused on the OTs because of the edge rush/sackfest we saw in the first GB game, the SF game, etc. But you're right that our interior has sucked too. We can't run at all between the tackles. We can't make a 4th and inches. We can't punch it in at the goal line. The interior OL has been WORSE this year than last, even as Webb has improved a bit at LT.

I agree with you about the right side. There's no way we can replace 5 starters all at once. Maybe 3 max, 2 minimum. Carimi better get his shit together back at RT next summer. I really hope his failure this year was a combination of coming off injury/surgery, being a rookie, and the horrible coaching you described. We know he was better than that before getting hurt and we really need him to be the RT he can and should be. Louis was the one guy who was playing well on the whole OL. He's very young still so I am hopeful he can come back strong at RG. He's got 9-10 months of rehab time before next season opens, fingers crossed cuz we need him.

The left 3/5 ths of the line is a total mess. Garza was bad this year and he's at the end of his career. At most he's got one more year left and that may be as a vet backup OG/C. I'd really like to see us draft his replacement HIGH this year. Barrett Jones of Alabama is the obvious leading candidate right now.r

I have no clue who will play LG for us. EWill seems to be a reserve quality player only, Rachal is gone on a section 8 discharge, and Spencer blows. Could Brown step up? Could we find a decent vet with tread left on the tires in FA? I dunno. It would be really hard to draft this guy this year. We probably do need to save one of the top picks for a LB, we don't have a 3rd rounder, and finding a rookie-year-starter in the 4th or later is unlikely.

The LT spot has plagued us for years. 2 seasons ago we had a chance to upgrade it big time in FA and Angelo screwed that up by failing to sign Bushrod. Last year there were no FAs worth pursuing. We won't be drafting high enough to have a shot at any LT beyond developmental quality only. Therefore, we MUST sign one of this years quality FA LTs if at all possible. Otherwise, we are looking at yet another year of Webb and all the compromises and problems that result from that. The cap hit from that may be pretty steep so don't count on a FA acquisition spree beyond LT.

Emery has his work cut out for him. Right now the OL is a disaster held together by duct tape. Realistically, it's going to take 2-3 years of determined effort to make it solid.

Originally Posted by XaosGorilla

I realize that I'm likely in the minority opinion on this, but I have been thinking that Tice may well be a good o-line coach, but that being OC he no longer has the time he needs to work with the o-line. The result of him trying to do too much being that he does neither well...

Don't worry, once you get done tarring and feathering me, I wont mention it again.

I dunno, Xaos. He may be decent OL tactician and technique teacher. As in a coach & player one-on-one. But he's definitely been a failure as a "big picture" strategist and personnel manager. He completely jacked up the LG position THREE TIMES and lost us the 2 best options we had there in CWill & Rachal. Both were better than any other option used since. The only success I can see with him the last few years is the emergence of Louis as a good RG, beyond that Tice has pretty much failed on everything else.

99 - I'm not disagreeing with you because you may be right, but what keeps creeping into my mind is -- EVRERY TE we have is not solid? EVERY OL we have is not solid? EVERY WR except Marshall is not solid? I mean at some point you have to say "what are the odds?"

Either we have the most incompetent talent evaluators out there, or they are just not being developed. I know many of them probably should not be on the team, but virtually all of the players at certain positions? It defies logic. I'm also stymied, but there may be some people here that might be ok. I just don't know any more. I remember reading (maybe it was just a dream) that Davis actually used to catch everything that was thrown his way. Not sure if it was in college or where I remember it from.

So who knows. I do think that we have both issues as you say. What the mix is, is anyones guess... But you make a good point

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I keep thinking there are two issues here. You must have solid players to begin with. Players who have the ability to be solid offensive linemen. Then you need coaches capable of developing the players into the best that they can be. You need both. Talent AND coaching.

I don't believe we have either.