Article tough on Smith -- even tougher on Cutler

**inchibearfan** · 12-18-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by soulman

I'll still stick be what I said. The Bears aren't that bad a team. They just play badly on offense so let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. At least not yet. If Emery decides to give Lovie one more shot and if Lovie agrees to allow Emery to evaluate and recommend for hire his choice of OC and that guys staff then I think there is a good chance of turning this around in one year.

But if that doesn't happen we're screwed and the only thing that can possible help is to do what's suggested here and cut ties with Lovie and move on. Lovie cannot fix what's wrong with that offense or seemingly find anyone who can. If Emery can't or won't then it's back to life in the middle of the pack again.

I agree with most of what you are saying but what offensive coordinator is going to want to come hear knowing that Lovie is on the hot seat? Our offense is worse than last year and sadly both the offensive line and Cutler have regressed this year with more talent. I think it is time to move on, Lovie isn't bad but he is not going to ever get us to a Super Bowl again (and win).

**short faced bear** · 12-18-2012, 10:29 PM

I'm don't know how many qb's resurrect their mechanics after getting hammered ala David Carr but that should be priority #1 along with rebuilding the o-line. JC had no other choice to go to the well once too often with Bmarsh but he's got to relearn the reads, progressions, and have other wrs who he can have confidence and rapport with. Drake and DeBord must also hit the bricks.

I could actually see another wr in FA along with a TE of course.

**4DaBERS** · 12-18-2012, 10:34 PM

You guys have all done well in critiqueing this article and there isn't much left to say. there is one thing that really stood out to me that we ALL know, but we seldom discuss it in terms of the real effect it has on this offense. That is the fact that Cutler is in his third offense in his four years here. That in and of itself should give him plenty of plausible rational for his less that stellar play. However, it goes further than that. This is the 3rd offense in four years for all the other offensive players (ie, Wide Receivers, Tight ends, running backs, and yes, O-Line). I know these guys are professionals, but that has to add for some confusion, and I think we see that often.

**bearsinhouston** · 12-18-2012, 10:52 PM

yeah. It points to the disfunctionality of the team. THEY KNOW it's broken or they wouldn't be constantly trying to fix it. The real problem is that they don't know how. Hopefully Emery does and he can start to get the train on the tracks. It was obvious that we needed WR upgrades and he made it happen. I think from the outside it may not have been apparent all of the coaching/management issues that were happening. I think he is immersed in it now. I want to see what he does.

Originally Posted by 4DaBERS

You guys have all done well in critiqueing this article and there isn't much left to say. there is one thing that really stood out to me that we ALL know, but we seldom discuss it in terms of the real effect it has on this offense. That is the fact that Cutler is in his third offense in his four years here. That in and of itself should give him plenty of plausible rational for his less that stellar play. However, it goes further than that. This is the 3rd offense in four years for all the other offensive players (ie, Wide Receivers, Tight ends, running backs, and yes, O-Line). I know these guys are professionals, but that has to add for some confusion, and I think we see that often.

**Riczaj01** · 12-18-2012, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by MPBears68

OK, that's a very rosy scenario you paint there (filling all those needs with only 2 picks in the first 3 rounds and a much smaller FA budget than last year). IF it can be done, I have no objection to a QB in say the 4th. I'm all for maximizing depth and talent of course, but between the draft, FA, and players already in the pipeline we need...

LT--starter
OG/C--starter
SLB/MLB--starter/near-starter
TE--starter
WR--depth, #4

...all before we need a depth rookie QB. Doable? Maybe. But tough.

Who's the backup qb? Jason Campbell; it was a 1 year contract. He's gone next year; there's 3.5 right there or do you want to resign him w/that little cap space we have...ya now what he did for us was specatuclar wasn't it? If not who we brining in see below? Wanna pay another 3-5 mil for a "vet qb" w/that same limited cap space and hope they do better then McClown, Greise, and Campbell vet backups all suck; it's rare when they are worth a damn and can win games? What, Matt Blanchard the UDFA on a 1 year contract...wanna resign him? That the guy you want backing up Cutler? Remeber Haine...ya that's what you get w/UDFA's. What you want the Bears to run w/out a backup qb? how good is that #4 WR/TE going to do when Forte is throwing the ball out of the wildcat?

Really think you can draft in rounds 1-4 a starting LT/MLB/starting OG? You really don't think that the Bears are going to walk into FA and not make a move to bring some veterans onto an already VERY young OL; but instead go younger and less experienced? Really that's your plan? All the while ignoring the most imporant position on the field, qb? b/c over the last few years you can guarantee that for some reason Cutler is going to miss a handfull of snaps, if not a few games and that means having a quality backup.

Really think that WR depth cannot be handled in rounds 5-7/UDFA easier then finding a guy to take the snap when Cutler goes down?
depth guys, drafted: Kevin Walters 7th round, Welker UDFA, Lance Moore, UDFA, Antonio Brown, 6th round, Julian Edlmen, 7th round, Chicago's own Jonny Knox 5th round; want me to keep going; I can. Wanna try and find the 7th-udfa qb's that are worth a damn in the last several years?

Again, sorry I don't see the Bears drafting a TE early when they can get a good one via FA. There's a ton, some will break the bank, some won't but a ton of talent out there. Keller, Cook, Fred Davis, Brandon Myers(looks solid in Oak), Martellus Bennet(if he keeps his head in the game)

Wanna see the great list of FA qb's hitting the market? Flacco(not going anywhere, and certainly not to backup), Moore, Campbell, Quinn, and those are the good ones...which one do you want to pay millions to?

So W/FA you got a TE/2 OL's, sure to hell not going vet qb w/that crap crop...unless you want more of the same poor play you've gotten the last several years(shrug)
That leaves you w/an OL of FA/FA/1st or 2nd pick/Carimi/Louis/Brown/Scott/E Williams, already an overahaul and it's only 1 draft pick, and you stil have a ton of potenial w/all that youth.

Again 1st 2 picks go LT/MLB

3rd no pick.

4th pick you really going w/another OL when the lines already overhauled; or TE, or the #2 qb that you still haven't filled yet? Which is the most imporant thing you need?

5th-UDFA WR/DB/OL/DL/TE depth, I hope I've proven you can get WR depth here; see above.

**MPBears68** · 12-18-2012, 11:36 PM

Ric, you obviously haven't read anything I've posted before multiple times on this subject. We have been over this before.

If you think you're gonna draft an LT upgrade to start over Webb (crazy I know) in the late first, then you're higher than a kite. Will never happen. You're lucky to get a starting RT there but you'll never see an LT. That's gonna have to come in FA if possible. And it would suck up most/all of the available cap space. Maybe could squeeze in a TE, maybe not.

Even if successful with all that, we still need a starting interior OL and a LB in the first two rounds of the draft. And hit on both. No third round pick. That leaves the 4th round at best for your boutique #2 QB. Of course, even all that assumes we find a way to replace your beloved Hester (who totally sucks big ass as a WR) with a plausible #3-4 man outside the draft. Could it be Joe Anderson? Could Knox make a miraculous recovery? Maybe. Maybe.

But it is a very tall order to get all that done and leave the 4th round pick for a QB, as nice as it would be to have that option. Yeah, it's tough to see a plausible scenario that gets us two starting OLs, a competent TE, another WR option, and a LB on only FA + 2 early draft picks.

**Rakk** · 12-18-2012, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Who's the backup qb? Jason Campbell; it was a 1 year contract. He's gone next year; there's 3.5 right there or do you want to resign him w/that little cap space we have...ya now what he did for us was specatuclar wasn't it? If not who we brining in see below? Wanna pay another 3-5 mil for a "vet qb" w/that same limited cap space and hope they do better then McClown, Greise, and Campbell vet backups all suck; it's rare when they are worth a damn and can win games? What, Matt Blanchard the UDFA on a 1 year contract...wanna resign him? That the guy you want backing up Cutler? Remeber Haine...ya that's what you get w/UDFA's. What you want the Bears to run w/out a backup qb? how good is that #4 WR/TE going to do when Forte is throwing the ball out of the wildcat?

Really think you can draft in rounds 1-4 a starting LT/MLB/starting OG? You really don't think that the Bears are going to walk into FA and not make a move to bring some veterans onto an already VERY young OL; but instead go younger and less experienced? Really that's your plan? All the while ignoring the most imporant position on the field, qb? b/c over the last few years you can guarantee that for some reason Cutler is going to miss a handfull of snaps, if not a few games and that means having a quality backup.

Really think that WR depth cannot be handled in rounds 5-7/UDFA easier then finding a guy to take the snap when Cutler goes down?
depth guys, drafted: Kevin Walters 7th round, Welker UDFA, Lance Moore, UDFA, Antonio Brown, 6th round, Julian Edlmen, 7th round, Chicago's own Jonny Knox 5th round; want me to keep going; I can. Wanna try and find the 7th-udfa qb's that are worth a damn in the last several years?

Again, sorry I don't see the Bears drafting a TE early when they can get a good one via FA. There's a ton, some will break the bank, some won't but a ton of talent out there. Keller, Cook, Fred Davis, Brandon Myers(looks solid in Oak), Martellus Bennet(if he keeps his head in the game)

Wanna see the great list of FA qb's hitting the market? Flacco(not going anywhere, and certainly not to backup), Moore, Campbell, Quinn, and those are the good ones...which one do you want to pay millions to?

So W/FA you got a TE/2 OL's, sure to hell not going vet qb w/that crap crop...unless you want more of the same poor play you've gotten the last several years(shrug)
That leaves you w/an OL of FA/FA/1st or 2nd pick/Carimi/Louis/Brown/Scott/E Williams, already an overahaul and it's only 1 draft pick, and you stil have a ton of potenial w/all that youth.

Again 1st 2 picks go LT/MLB

3rd no pick.

4th pick you really going w/another OL when the lines already overhauled; or TE, or the #2 qb that you still haven't filled yet? Which is the most imporant thing you need?

5th-UDFA WR/DB/OL/DL/TE depth, I hope I've proven you can get WR depth here; see above.

If Emery can't get a T upgrade in FA, then I think he goes there in Rnd 1 or 2, along with SLB/MLB. Otherwise, I believe he goes G/OC. 4th round I could see him going OL again. 5th thru 7th, take you pick it really doesn't matter anyway. If one of those guys hits, it's gravy. He can go FA for TE and WR, and am still surprised he took Rodriquez in the 4th last year, when we could have gotten an OL. We also need depth on DL, and DB, and I again I see him going there in FA. We are getting Hardin back so that should help, and he's almost like getting a 3rd rnd safety in 2013.

**Riczaj01** · 12-19-2012, 12:20 AM

I have been listening MP, you keep saying that the #2 qb isn't as imporant compared to #4WR/#1TE/ and 2 starting OL's. But reality is that you need a #2 backup, where are you getting him from? Campbell is gone, Blanchard is gone(neither are good). I gave you the list of vet FA's....w/the limited cap space you have you really want one of them on your team; if so name him. You have to grab 2 OL in FA also, at least one of which has to be a T. If there is cap left over and if you can spend money on a bad qb, why not take get a good TE instead; the prices will be silimar depending on how high you look.

If not that means come draft time you've taken 2 OL in FA no Qb/Te. That means you need LB/TE/#4WR/OL depth/#2 QB.

In the first 2 rounds you you can take care of the LB/OL or TE. In rounds 5-UDFA you can take care of the WR/OL. That leaves the 4th round to get your backup QB or your TE. Which one do you choose? It also means come udfa or FA period you need to pick up the other. I'm sorry I would rather have a really good #2 qb for Cutler then a TE; Cutler has missed at least 1 game the last 3 years and a handfull of qtr's also. I want my backup to be quality and capable of winning a game, and you just don't get that from retred vet qb's. But I can get servicable TE's via FA.

What I haven't heard you say MP is what you want to do in FA and what you want in the draft. What I haven't heard you say is where is the backup qb coming from b/c after the season is over we don't have one; and yes it is a requirement for any NFL team to have.

**Riczaj01** · 12-19-2012, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Rakk

If Emery can't get a T upgrade in FA, then I think he goes there in Rnd 1 or 2, along with SLB/MLB. Otherwise, I believe he goes G/OC. 4th round I could see him going OL again. 5th thru 7th, take you pick it really doesn't matter anyway. If one of those guys hits, it's gravy. He can go FA for TE and WR, and am still surprised he took Rodriquez in the 4th last year, when we could have gotten an OL. We also need depth on DL, and DB, and I again I see him going there in FA. We are getting Hardin back so that should help, and he's almost like getting a 3rd rnd safety in 2013.

Rakk, where do you get your #2 qb, campbell was a 1 year deal, Blanchard was a 1 year deal. Who's the backup? Look at that list of vet qb's and tell me which one you want to spend what little cap space on to bring in.

**Rakk** · 12-19-2012, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Rakk, where do you get your #2 qb, campbell was a 1 year deal, Blanchard was a 1 year deal. Who's the backup? Look at that list of vet qb's and tell me which one you want to spend what little cap space on to bring in.

It depends who's on the street come time, and there's no way to know that now. Plus, who's the HC going to be, because that definitely affects who we're going to target as the #2. Regardless, the only place we're getting a vet from is FA, so that's going to happen. Plus, that's a priority, along with OL. Question is, which will Emery prioritize QB or OL? Because one is going to affect the other cap-wise, especially if he goes after a LT.
Personally, I don't think Emery goes after a LT in FA. I could be totally wrong, but I see him sticking with Webb, and going FA to shore up the middle and draft a T high, and an OC/G in rnd 4 like I said. Back to the QB, Emery has already shown how he wants to play that hand. I am no cap expert at all, but last I read we have something like $13 M in 2013, and $50 M in 2014, and that's without a new deal for Cutler. So, here's what we know. Emery values the #2, and isn't going to the draft for one, a developmental guy yeah, but not a day one backup. So that means all the high hopes for him to bring in the top FA LT isn't going to happen. And, you're assuming Campbell is gone. Let's assume not. What's to say he doesn't resign for 1.5-2M. (I'm not sure his vet min) Do you really think his phone is going to be ringing off the hook? Maybe, maybe not. No one wanted him as their #1 this year, and what has he done to change that.

All that said, how we acquire our new #2 QB doesn't concern me, at all. It's going to happen, and it's going to be FA pick up. It will affect everything we do in FA.

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