Thread: Jay Cutler wants to avoid coordinator shuffle

Ben you keep bring up tha JC is changing the plays. What source are you using to get your facts? If JC is changing the plays and Tice is still alowing it to happen game after game, That has to fall back to Tice , no? Maybe Tice's O can work, but with the OL the way it is,it won't. Max protect does really limit the play calling.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

BUT the one question that needs to be answered, is how much of this is bad play calling from Tice, and how much is Cutler calling an audible into a play that he would rather run?

Probably an unanswerable question. On the one hand Jay might be running rickshaw right over Tice. On the other you don't see Tice faring well in his strong suit the running game. I noticed the rollouts have diminished dramatically and since Jay is a bit free wheeling, I would think he would want to do those. If Jay was in charge I would guess he would wish to throw to Forte and Bennett earlier this season.

I would lean to he's running Tice's stuff but is perhaps subverting some of the play-calling. Doesn't bode well for anyone with the clipboard either way.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

BUT the one question that needs to be answered, is how much of this is bad play calling from Tice, and how much is Cutler calling an audible into a play that he would rather run?

Some of the plays called are solid calls, but we simply do not have the personnel to execute the plays. I figure there is no magic here. If people can't block, catch, run routes worth a crap, have time to pass - then we've got a problem. Stupid penalties, turnovers, 3rd-and-forever situations..........these are the many things that kill drives, lose games and ultimately tank a season.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Some of the plays called are solid calls, but we simply do not have the personnel to execute the plays. I figure there is no magic here. If people can't block, catch, run routes worth a crap, have time to pass - then we've got a problem. Stupid penalties, turnovers, 3rd-and-forever situations..........these are the many things that kill drives, lose games and ultimately tank a season.

I tend to think there is no one place to point, JABF. And I think that is your point about "what is wrong?" too.

Tice makes some errors, yes. Cutler makes some errors, yes. The Oline makes some errors, yes. The Rb's make some errors, yes. The Wr's make some errors, yes.

They all feed off of each other.

Go back and watch tape....when we get a decent start on first down, that drive typically is pretty good. Not saying they always score, but if you look at the length of our drives (by number of plays and time expired) either we go 3 and out or we have 8+ play drives. The momentum of that first play of a drive (and even a game) has a big determination on not only the ability to have more viable options from a play calling standpoint, but also has an effect on the psyche of the players (especially when snowballing) meaning stupid penalties, incorrect blocking assignments, wrong routes AND LOCKING IN ON ONE TARGET, all happen. When you lose confidence in other's ability to block out the negative, you revert to what you know best - and that goes for Cutler, Tice, Forte (he isn't very patient this year), and fringe players like AJ (using his physical attributes to win matchups rather than route running/speed).




Since we won the other day, I honestly believe that we will have Lovie again next year...whether we win on Sunday or not. If that happens, I fully expect to see more comfort from all parties with the offense, and an improvement. No I don't expect to lead the league, but I would expect to have us in the middle of the pack.

Then the question becomes has the window shut on the defense & special teams being good enough to make a middling offense team a true contender. We don't have that right now.

Originally Posted by BearStuff

I tend to think there is no one place to point, JABF. And I think that is your point about "what is wrong?" too.

Tice makes some errors, yes. Cutler makes some errors, yes. The Oline makes some errors, yes. The Rb's make some errors, yes. The Wr's make some errors, yes.

They all feed off of each other.

Go back and watch tape....when we get a decent start on first down, that drive typically is pretty good. Not saying they always score, but if you look at the length of our drives (by number of plays and time expired) either we go 3 and out or we have 8+ play drives. The momentum of that first play of a drive (and even a game) has a big determination on not only the ability to have more viable options from a play calling standpoint, but also has an effect on the psyche of the players (especially when snowballing) meaning stupid penalties, incorrect blocking assignments, wrong routes AND LOCKING IN ON ONE TARGET, all happen. When you lose confidence in other's ability to block out the negative, you revert to what you know best - and that goes for Cutler, Tice, Forte (he isn't very patient this year), and fringe players like AJ (using his physical attributes to win matchups rather than route running/speed).




Since we won the other day, I honestly believe that we will have Lovie again next year...whether we win on Sunday or not. If that happens, I fully expect to see more comfort from all parties with the offense, and an improvement. No I don't expect to lead the league, but I would expect to have us in the middle of the pack.

Then the question becomes has the window shut on the defense & special teams being good enough to make a middling offense team a true contender. We don't have that right now.

You explain this better than I can. My gut feeling is that our problems on offense encompass a NUMBER of contributing factors. It's not as simple as saying "go out and get another offensive coordinator" or "Turner sucks" or "Martz sucks" or "Tice sucks" or the next guy we bring in sucks.

That is far too simplistic .

Surely we are all more intelligent that that, after all these years of suffering through bad offenses.

Originally Posted by MPBears68

Yes, the ideal situation is to have "continuity" with an elite coaching staff/scheme already-in-place. In other words, construct it then maintain and stick with it. Sorry, but that's way way different from never building it in the first place and then settling for mediocre-to-bottom-of-the-barrel performance just so you can say "hey, we got continuity!"

The only thing "continuous" about the Bears' offense is how BAD it has been and how CONSISTENTLY BAD it has been year after year. Have we ever finished in just the top half of the NFL offensively during the tenure of Lovie Smith or any of his OC's??? No. Usually we finish well towards the bottom.

Yes, there have been player talent-level issues that contributed (and still are), not denying that one bit. But, even with the OL woes this year (a fair bit of which falls directly on Lovie-Tice too), can you tell me how an offense that has Cutler, Forte, Bush, Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett, and a defense that takes the ball away frequently......

....can possibly be THIS BAD????????

I have always believed that the skill positions on offense cannot reach their ceiling when the foundation of the offense - the offensive line - is extremely bad. Worst in the NFL bad (certainly one of the worst in the NFL most years).

People may not agree with me (and that's fine) but I firmly believe we will never have a great offense in Chicago, until we fix the offensive line.

All of the coaches and great skill players cannot overcome a weak foundation - a bad oline.

I want to see this offense behind a great offensive line. Throw in a TE who can catch, and replace Hester with a guy who can run routes and catch a football - and I believe we will finally have a solid offense in Chicago. And until we do this, it won't matter how many coaches we rotate through Chicago. It will just be "more of the same" failed offenses.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I have always believed that the skill positions on offense cannot reach their ceiling when the foundation of the offense - the offensive line - is extremely bad. Worst in the NFL bad (certainly one of the worst in the NFL most years).

People may not agree with me (and that's fine) but I firmly believe we will never have a great offense in Chicago, until we fix the offensive line.

All of the coaches and great skill players cannot overcome a weak foundation - a bad oline.

I want to see this offense behind a great offensive line. Throw in a TE who can catch, and replace Hester with a guy who can run routes and catch a football - and I believe we will finally have a solid offense in Chicago. And until we do this, it won't matter how many coaches we rotate through Chicago. It will just be "more of the same" failed offenses.

Don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, I agree enthusiastically and have discussed specific moves that need to be made to upgrade the OL and a few other positions of need. But that (player deficiencies and upgrades) isn't the subject of this thread. Coaching, specifically offensive coaching, is what we are talking about.

Those two endeavors are not mutually exclusive. You can upgrade your player roster and your coaching staff all at the same time. Doing one doesn't make the other less necessary or possible. It's hardly unprecedented. San Fran went from terrible to SB contenders in short order by aggressively fixing BOTH.

Lovie, Tice, and several O position coaches need to go. In January. That clown school of a coaching staff won't win the Kentucky Derby no many how many thoroughbreds you put in their stable.