Now once we start finishing 6-10 without Lovie

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Originally Posted by Boochee Man

then what will you guys be saying?

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You know what I'll be saying? The same thing I said in another post. Lovie finished 10-6 this year with a team playing 6-10 ball. We got lucky with a cupcake schedule weeks 1-8 and then once we started playing good teams we got out scored, out coached, and eventually played ourselves out of the playoffs. Take away those defensive scores and easy layup FGs and TDs off turnovers and we lose at least 4 or 5 more games.

I'm sorry but the Bears didn't play like a 10-6 team this year and if we'd have ended up the 8-8 or worse we played like then there'd be very few Lovie supporters left who don't live in Wisconsin or Minnesota.

That's what I'm saying now and that's what I'll say IF we end up 6-10 with a new guy but for now you can stop using your imagination to cast anymore negativism on a move that had to be made. Why don't we wait to see IF that happens huh? What will YOU say if we cruise into a SB within the next two years? :rock:

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Originally Posted by Boochee Man

then what will you guys be saying?

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Well I'll be a son of a striped ass snake! That has to be about the dumbest thing I've ever read out of you in all the years I have been on this site, Booch. Of course we are going to struggle next year. Several players are going to leave by attrition, others will be cut because they shouldn't be on the team as dead weight; they should have been cut years ago, and weren't. You had to know this was inevitable, Booch. Without saying so, it was made abundantly clear by Phil Emery that anything less than a playoff appearance this season would be unacceptable and would be met with dire consequences.

Lovie Smith built a team with a foundation consisting of quick sand. His offensive line never improved from year to year, but rather got worse over time, and despite all that, his offensive line coach/offensive coordinator kept saying that he knew how to make it work. Well, did it happen? And also, this same offensive coordinator (Tice) got the job based on the premise that he would coach the offense based on its strengths rather than its weaknesses. Well, did he do that? The answer to both questions was a resounding "no." Lovie Smith got two-thirds of the pie right when it came to building a winning program: defense and special teams. However, he failed mightily when it came to building and achieving offensive efficiency and proficiency, and it cost him his job. I don't know about you, but I think we need a coach who knows a thing or two about building great offenses along with the impenetrable defenses and special teams units.

Lovie Smith was only good at one thing: mediocrity. A record of 10-6 might sound good, but doesn't do much for me or for most Bears fans who watch and see that it is not good enough to make the playoffs. This franchise over the years has appeared in 25 postseasons; however, since the merger in 1970 between the NFL and AFL, the Bears have only appeared in the playoffs 14 times, with 10 of those years the team winning the division. This franchise, between 1921 and 1963, won 8 World Championships and held the mark for the most titles in NFL history along with being the winningest franchise. Since 1963, the Bears have only won 1 World Championship, and have only appeared in two Super Bowls total. When George Halas ran this franchise, it was consistently among the very best in the NFL at winning and competing for and winning championships. Nowadays, the Chicago Bears are an example of what bad front office management, poor coaching, and terrible player personnel will do for you -- that is, achieving mediocrity.

As a fan of the New York Yankees, I expect nothing less than for the front office/ownership to make a concerted effort to build a foundation for excellence so that they can compete and hopefully win World Series' Championships. I expect nothing less than that from the Bears, the Bulls, the Blackhawks, the Tennessee Volunteers football/men's basketball/women's basketball programs, Ohio State Buckeyes football, and Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball. While some of those other teams have struggled for a few years in the recent past, most of them put up an effort to be excellent with the exception of the Bears and Tennessee men's basketball. The Bears have lost its edge as a franchise over the past 50 years, and it's time it got its mojo back. Firing Jerry Angelo last year and Lovie Smith today were the first two steps toward a brighter future.

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Originally Posted by Dagan81

Well I'll be a son of a striped ass snake! That has to be about the dumbest thing I've ever read out of you in all the years I have been on this site, Booch. Of course we are going to struggle next year. Several players are going to leave by attrition, others will be cut because they shouldn't be on the team as dead weight; they should have been cut years ago, and weren't. You had to know this was inevitable, Booch. Without saying so, it was made abundantly clear by Phil Emery that anything less than a playoff appearance this season would be unacceptable and would be met with dire consequences.

Lovie Smith built a team with a foundation consisting of quick sand. His offensive line never improved from year to year, but rather got worse over time, and despite all that, his offensive line coach/offensive coordinator kept saying that he knew how to make it work. Well, did it happen? And also, this same offensive coordinator (Tice) got the job based on the premise that he would coach the offense based on its strengths rather than its weaknesses. Well, did he do that? The answer to both questions was a resounding "no." Lovie Smith got two-thirds of the pie right when it came to building a winning program: defense and special teams. However, he failed mightily when it came to building and achieving offensive efficiency and proficiency, and it cost him his job. I don't know about you, but I think we need a coach who knows a thing or two about building great offenses along with the impenetrable defenses and special teams units.

Lovie Smith was only good at one thing: mediocrity. A record of 10-6 might sound good, but doesn't do much for me or for most Bears fans who watch and see that it is not good enough to make the playoffs. This franchise over the years has appeared in 25 postseasons; however, since the merger in 1970 between the NFL and AFL, the Bears have only appeared in the playoffs 14 times, with 10 of those years the team winning the division. This franchise, between 1921 and 1963, won 8 World Championships and held the mark for the most titles in NFL history along with being the winningest franchise. Since 1963, the Bears have only won 1 World Championship, and have only appeared in two Super Bowls total. When George Halas ran this franchise, it was consistently among the very best in the NFL at winning and competing for and winning championships. Nowadays, the Chicago Bears are an example of what bad front office management, poor coaching, and terrible player personnel will do for you -- that is, achieving mediocrity.

As a fan of the New York Yankees, I expect nothing less than for the front office/ownership to make a concerted effort to build a foundation for excellence so that they can compete and hopefully win World Series' Championships. I expect nothing less than that from the Bears, the Bulls, the Blackhawks, the Tennessee Volunteers football/men's basketball/women's basketball programs, Ohio State Buckeyes football, and Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball. While some of those other teams have struggled for a few years in the recent past, most of them put up an effort to be excellent with the exception of the Bears and Tennessee men's basketball. The Bears have lost its edge as a franchise over the past 50 years, and it's time it got its mojo back. Firing Jerry Angelo last year and Lovie Smith today were the first two steps toward a brighter future.

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Well said. I am amazed at the number of posters here who are upset by this firing. Lovie Smith had taken this thing as far as it could go. Yes, he lifted up a bad team to respectability. But you could give him from now to eternity and he wouldn't go on and win a Super Bowl. The one time he got close was as much about luck and favorable scheduling as it was skill, and he got thoroughly outcoached and exposed when he finally did get there.

It's as if everyone is so scarred by the bad years of the late 80s and 90s that they would rather see a team that's never going to be terrible and never going to be great, as opposed to risking suckage again in the pursuit of greatness.

Even those who express support for the firing are mostly falling all over themselves to compliment Lovie as a fine person of such high character, etc. Sorry, but I think that's a myth, too. I have always viewed him as a phony, arrogant, job protecting, apple polisher who takes no responsibility for his failings and who throws people under the bus to save himself.

I know that sounds harsh, but how many times has he hired lesser lights who owe him loyalty rather than going for the best candidate? He consistently shies away from having anyone around who might outshine him, beginning with the ouster of Ron Rivera. Defense is Lovie's calling card, and he wasn't about to have anyone around who people might credit over him. Bring on the Bob Babiches and Daryl Drakes and anyone else who could never possibly be viewed as a threat to his ego or job security.

I think he also played Jerry Angelo like a violin. Ever since the post Super Bow contract where the Bears incorrectly viewed Lovie as a guy who was on the verge of winning the Big One rather than a flawed coach who got lucky with the incredible years from Hester and Urlacher and a lot of bad competition and fortuitous bounces, he got a load of power and influence. I believe he had a big say in the Bears consistently ignoring offense and stacking the D, but he was shrewd enough to be quiet about it. Not to excuse Angelo, who was a sub-par GM, but Lovie got most of what he wanted without having to take responsibility for the picks and acquisitions that didn't pan out.

Any smart head coach should have known the O line was terrible for years and demanded something be done about it, but Lovie was always fine with backing whatever stupid rationalization Angelo or Mike Tice or whoever else made. Chris Wiliams? Love him. J Webb? He'll be great. Omiyale? Jonathan Scott? Washed up Orlando Pace? Everybody playing out of position? Best talent we've ever had. I wouldn't go so far as to say Lovie SABOTAGED offense, but I think he certainly wanted all the glory for the defense, which he could take all the credit for.

He sucked up to the McCaskeys and Uncle Teddy Phillips, who made every excuse for him -- remember that smug look and the arrogant way he talked to the beat reporters at the press conference announcing that he would be retained after the 7-9 season? He coddled his players so that they would like him. Not that it's bad to have a locker room behind you, but when the price you pay is a team that has no accountability and lives in a comfort zone, then you have a lax, entitled culture. Belichick isn't buddies with his players, he is harsh in his assessments and lights them up in film sessions, even Tom Brady. But he wins Super Bowls. You hear a lot about how everyone respects Lovie but I think he pandered to his players, especially his defensive stars, rather than earning respect through being fair and consistent and demanding excellence.

Well, whatever you think of him, his time is over in Chicago. Maybe someone else will hire him as a head coach, maybe not. If you want your 4-12 turned into 9-7, if you want to lead the league in the all important categories of prayer meetings attended and least cuss words spoken, by all means, Lovie is your guy. I'm just glad that for the Bears, recess is over and Camp Lovie is shut down for good. Let's see who Emery brings in and be glad that greatness is once again possible.

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Originally Posted by jccaroline

Well said. I am amazed at the number of posters here who are upset by this firing. Lovie Smith had taken this thing as far as it could go. Yes, he lifted up a bad team to respectability. But you could give him from now to eternity and he wouldn't go on and win a Super Bowl. The one time he got close was as much about luck and favorable scheduling as it was skill, and he got thoroughly outcoached and exposed when he finally did get there.

It's as if everyone is so scarred by the bad years of the late 80s and 90s that they would rather see a team that's never going to be terrible and never going to be great, as opposed to risking suckage again in the pursuit of greatness.

Even those who express support for the firing are mostly falling all over themselves to compliment Lovie as a fine person of such high character, etc. Sorry, but I think that's a myth, too. I have always viewed him as a phony, arrogant, job protecting, apple polisher who takes no responsibility for his failings and who throws people under the bus to save himself.

I know that sounds harsh, but how many times has he hired lesser lights who owe him loyalty rather than going for the best candidate? He consistently shies away from having anyone around who might outshine him, beginning with the ouster of Ron Rivera. Defense is Lovie's calling card, and he wasn't about to have anyone around who people might credit over him. Bring on the Bob Babiches and Daryl Drakes and anyone else who could never possibly be viewed as a threat to his ego or job security.

I think he also played Jerry Angelo like a violin. Ever since the post Super Bow contract where the Bears incorrectly viewed Lovie as a guy who was on the verge of winning the Big One rather than a flawed coach who got lucky with the incredible years from Hester and Urlacher and a lot of bad competition and fortuitous bounces, he got a load of power and influence. I believe he had a big say in the Bears consistently ignoring offense and stacking the D, but he was shrewd enough to be quiet about it. Not to excuse Angelo, who was a sub-par GM, but Lovie got most of what he wanted without having to take responsibility for the picks and acquisitions that didn't pan out.

Any smart head coach should have known the O line was terrible for years and demanded something be done about it, but Lovie was always fine with backing whatever stupid rationalization Angelo or Mike Tice or whoever else made. Chris Wiliams? Love him. J Webb? He'll be great. Omiyale? Jonathan Scott? Washed up Orlando Pace? Everybody playing out of position? Best talent we've ever had. I wouldn't go so far as to say Lovie SABOTAGED offense, but I think he certainly wanted all the glory for the defense, which he could take all the credit for.

He sucked up to the McCaskeys and Uncle Teddy Phillips, who made every excuse for him -- remember that smug look and the arrogant way he talked to the beat reporters at the press conference announcing that he would be retained after the 7-9 season? He coddled his players so that they would like him. Not that it's bad to have a locker room behind you, but when the price you pay is a team that has no accountability and lives in a comfort zone, then you have a lax, entitled culture. Belichick isn't buddies with his players, he is harsh in his assessments and lights them up in film sessions, even Tom Brady. But he wins Super Bowls. You hear a lot about how everyone respects Lovie but I think he pandered to his players, especially his defensive stars, rather than earning respect through being fair and consistent and demanding excellence.

Well, whatever you think of him, his time is over in Chicago. Maybe someone else will hire him as a head coach, maybe not. If you want your 4-12 turned into 9-7, if you want to lead the league in the all important categories of prayer meetings attended and least cuss words spoken, by all means, Lovie is your guy. I'm just glad that for the Bears, recess is over and Camp Lovie is shut down for good. Let's see who Emery brings in and be glad that greatness is once again possible.

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Wow, an homage to the great J.C. Caroline! I don't know a lot about him other than the fact he picked off Johnny Unitas' first professional pass and returned it for a touchdown. I only know about Caroline what I've watched on a DVD I own about the greatest Bears defenders by position in the history of the franchise. He must have been one hell of a player.

As to what you say, I agree on most counts. This team has developed a culture of settling for mediocrity over the course of the past six seasons, or since we last appeared in the Super Bowl. Did Lovie have pretty decent success as head coach of the Bears? Sure, if you look at the wins/losses record. He finished with a record of 81-63, good for a winning percentage of .566. He coached us to three division titles and a Super Bowl appearance in 2006. For a while, he dominated Green Bay as no other coach since Mike Ditka had done for the Bears. But what of the past six years? We only made the playoffs once during that time, in 2010, and even though we made it to the NFC Championship Game, we continued the perpetuating slide into mediocrity that had been pervasive with this franchise since Ditka was fired in 1992. In 2011 and this season, we had the playoffs clinched dead to rights, but lost so many games toward the end of the season that we couldn't seal the deal and make it. This is a move that had to happen, no matter what idiots like Brian Urlacher and Devin Hester said. If it wasn't for the fact that they're play wasn't good enough to win for the Bears, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

It's like this: Lovie Smith was an apologist for his players. If they played poorly, he chalked it up to a case of bad circumstances and would call for others to support them and to give them another chance. This was certainly the case with players like Devin Hester, J'Marcus Webb, etc. Lovie was a player's coach, and as such, he was a real softy. He never lit a fire in them to do anything other than treat football as a "gentleman's game." Football is not a "gentleman's game" like golf, tennis, or to a lesser degree, baseball; it's a game whereby those with the greatest primal instinct typically wins out in the end. Only a portion of this team's players had that mentality; this team needed EVERYONE to look at this game as a "blood sport." Like baseball legend Ty Cobb once said about how he played the game of baseball, he played the game as if it were war. And like Cobb did in baseball, every player in the NFL needs to be willing to "beat the bastards and leave them in the ditch."

We haven't had a coach with the attitude that football is a "blood sport" or "war" since Mike Ditka. Lovie Smith certainly didn't have that kind of fire within him. I think getting someone like Bill Cowher or that Mike McCoy feller from the Denver Broncos would be a wise decision. We need some who understands defense as Chicago has always prided itself on having a great defense, but who also comprehends that we need a great offense that can score points for us so that we can be competitive in games in which our defense might not be playing well. As it sits right now, we have a team that can only win if the defense performs well, which it does 9 times out of 10, yet despite that, the offense is so awful that it doesn't score enough points to support what the defense is able to do. That can't be the case in this age of great offensive play. Something has to give. Our coach needs to be able to have a final say in any and all decisions that are made by the assistants and who can motivate the team to perform up to its full potential. The last coach who did all of that for the Bears wasn't Ditka - it was George Halas.

First off I don't see us going 6-10 next year, I don't see major changes in the Defense we have good players yes some are getting old but still have a year or two left in them. The Offense is what was going to get the major change this year anyways, we should make big moves in FA to help the O line and TE and may even pick up a WR. With that, we will stil need to pick up a O linemen in the Draft and use most of the rest of the draft to help the Defense. Lossing Lovie will only make the move to Offense a little easier and give Emery more control over the team.

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Originally Posted by JJ-30

First off I don't see us going 6-10 next year, I don't see major changes in the Defense we have good players yes some are getting old but still have a year or two left in them. The Offense is what was going to get the major change this year anyways, we should make big moves in FA to help the O line and TE and may even pick up a WR. With that, we will stil need to pick up a O linemen in the Draft and use most of the rest of the draft to help the Defense. Lossing Lovie will only make the move to Offense a little easier and give Emery more control over the team.

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JJ, I think this team will finish at about .500 next year and no better. I think you're going to see a drastic decline in how this defense performs this coming season. The only way I see the defense performing well is if Emery signs someone to coach like Bill Cowher. The only way I see Cowher coming to Chicago is if he is given the title of like "Vice President of Football Operations" in order to give him greater say in who is drafted and how the organization is run. Basically, I think signing Cowher will require him being placed in a position of authority that is similar to what Emery enjoys at the present. If I'm George McCaskey, I'd make damn good and sure that whoever is signed, whether it be Cowher, Andy Reid, or someone who has never had a head coaching position before, gets whatever powers they need vested within them so that they can have enough say in the direction this franchise goes.

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Originally Posted by 50YearFrustration

Boochee, I think Lovie is a good defensive coordinator, but an average head coach. I know the record is better then average, but I tend look at what Bears do against the elite teams as a better measure. I don't see the Bears going 6-10 next year. As a fellow Bear fan, I hope you would place your wishes for the team's success above any disagreement you have with the firing,....

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I want the Bears to do well, I just think the aging defense can't survive a rebuilding stage. I'm afraid that we will quickly become the Saints. high-powered offense that scores 25 ppg, with a defense that allows 26 ppg.

I'm not as knowledgeable a fan as many people here but I think it will be a good season and who knows maybe the team and the new HC just mesh and we don't take a major hit next season. I think the D will be solid for at least a few more years and if we draft correctly we should be able to beef up the offense. The team is filled with NFL players who are the top 1% of the skill pool and a new HC doesn't always mean a losing season (or does it, I'm new to this whole statistical football talk thing).

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Originally Posted by Agent Talon

I'm not as knowledgeable a fan as many people here but I think it will be a good season and who knows maybe the team and the new HC just mesh and we don't take a major hit next season. I think the D will be solid for at least a few more years and if we draft correctly we should be able to beef up the offense. The team is filled with NFL players who are the top 1% of the skill pool and a new HC doesn't always mean a losing season (or does it, I'm new to this whole statistical football talk thing).

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Welcome to the board. I too, think it may be a good season & the new coaches & players mesh well. This is not a 4-12 team like Detroit. It's a team that needs a few important pieces added/upgraded to be a solid playoff team (one that can actually win in the playoffs).

Devin Hester wants to retire.

Thats it, throw in the towel. 2-14 here we come.