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Thread: Recent Bears coaches vs winning and losing teams

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    Member Shark86x's Avatar
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    Recent Bears coaches vs winning and losing teams

    Ditka's comments about how stupid the Bears were to fire Lovie got me thinking. I thought I'd compare his record to Lovie's, but then I found this article today, and they did most of the work for me.

    To make it easier, I made a table. Since Wischnowsky's article didn't include Lovie's record vs. .500 teams or losers, I combined those records for the other guys...


    Head Coach # Seasons Overall vs Winners vs .500/Losers % games vs winners
    Da Coach 11 106-62 (.631) 27-41 (.397) 79-21 (.790) 40.5% (68 of 168)
    Wannabe 6 41-57 (.418) 11-41 (.212) 29-15 (.659) 53.1% (52 of 98)
    Jarhead 5 35-45 (.438) 13-31 (.295) 22-14 (.611) 55% (44 of 80)
    Lovie Dovie 9 81-63 (.563) 20-40 (.333) 61-23 (.726) 41.7% (60 of 144)

    They all did their best work against losing teams, but Ditka was the best. Wanny was the worst, but did much better than jarhead against losers. In any case, I was surprised at the low numbers against winning teams for all of them, and the strength of schedule wanny and jarhead faced compared to Ditka and Lovie.


    Link to the article: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/...winning-teams/


    Wisch: How Did Ditka Fare Against Winning Teams?

    By Dave Wischnowsky-(CBS)

    Lovie Smith is gone. And it has Iron Mike steaming mad.


    “I think Lovie is a very good coach,” Mike Ditka ranted on WMVP-AM earlier this week after Smith was fired by the Bears following a 10-6 season. “Everybody is a little bit different in their manner. I think that’s a 10-win season. They started 7-1. This team, there’s a reason they lost some games in between.”


    Ditka went on to call the Bears “stupid” for canning Lovie, pointing out that if the Packers had beaten the Vikings last Sunday, Smith would instead be preparing to coach the Bears in a playoff game this weekend.


    “If Minnesota would have lost last night and the Bears were in the playoffs this wouldn’t have happened,” Ditka argued on Monday. “That’s a fact. So how stupid is it then? It really is stupid.”


    But, from my vantage point, Lovie’s firing isn’t stupid at all. After all, following a 7-1 start, the Bears shouldn’t have needed Green Bay to win just so they could slip into the playoffs for what would have only been the second time in six years.


    Beyond that, as I pointed out in a column a month ago, it wasn’t Smith’s overall record in Chicago – a solid 81-63 (.563) – that merited his firing. Rather, it was his overall record against teams with winning records.


    With his Bears career now complete, we can now view Smith in totality. And in nine seasons, he compiled just a 20-40 record (.333) against opponents that finished their season with an above-.500 record. That’s compared to the 23-26 mark (.469) that Packers coach Mike McCarthy has posted against winning teams during his seven seasons in Green Bay. On the strength of those numbers, McCarthy is 74-38 (.661) overall.


    This week, Ditka’s comments about Smith’s firing got me curious about how “Da Coach” fared against winning teams during his coaching career with the Bears. Additionally, I wondered how the coaches in between Ditka and Lovie – Dave Wannstedt and Dick Jauron – held against top competition during their time in Chicago.


    What I discovered was surprising. And it leads me to wonder if Ditka may have been a bit more lucky than good as an NFL coach, while also questioning whether Wannstedt and Jauron weren’t quite as awful we found them to be. That’s not to say they were good, mind you. But when it comes to scheduling, both Wanny and Dick were dealt shockingly bad hands in Chicago.


    But first up, Ditka. During his 11 seasons in Chicago, Iron Mike racked up an impressive 106-62 record (.631). He did so by going 27-41 (.397) against winning teams, 68-16 (.810) against losing teams and 11-5 (.688) against .500 teams.


    Following a 5-11 season in 1992, Ditka was fired and replaced by Wannstedt. During his six seasons in Chicago, Wanny went 41-57 (.418) overall. That total included an 11-41 (.212) record vs. winning teams, a 22-13 record (.629) vs. losing teams and a 7-2 record (.778) record vs. .500 teams.


    After going 4-12 in 1998, Wannstedt gave way to Jauron. In five seasons at the Bears helm, Jauron went 35-45 (.438) with a 13-31 record (.295) vs. winning teams, an 18-8 record (.692) vs. losing teams and a 4-6 (.400) record vs. .500 teams.


    What jumped out at me most when compiling this research was the inordinate amount of winning teams that Wannstedt and Jauron faced during their Bears careers when compared to Ditka and Smith.


    While in Chicago, 52 of Wannstedt’s 98 Bears games (53.1 percent) came against winning teams, while Jauron faced winning foes in 44 of his 80 Bears games (55 percent).


    Smith, meanwhile, coached against winning teams in just 60 of his 144 Bears games (41.7 percent), while Ditka faced winning competition in only 68 of his 168 Bears games (40.5 percent). As a further point of comparison, up in Green Bay, McCarthy has faced winning teams in 49 of his 112 career games with the Packers (43.8 percent) – on par, for the most part, with Ditka and Smith.


    Now, to be sure, both Wannstedt (.212 winning percentage) and Jauron (.295) were awful against the winning teams that they faced while in Chicago. But, at the same time, they also had to coach an inordinately high percentage of their games against them.


    Neither coach benefited from the favorable schedules that both Smith and Ditka enjoyed during their tenures in Chicago. Surely, that played a role in helping Smith and Ditka pile up regular season records that were so much superior to Wannstedt’s and Jauron’s.


    Considering all that, perhaps Lovie and Ditka weren’t quite as good as they’ve appeared, while Wannstedt and Jauron weren’t quite as bad. As with most things, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.


    But what these numbers surely show us is that success in the NFL isn’t just about good coaching. It’s about good scheduling, too.


    The next Bears coach should hope he gets lucky.
    Last edited by Shark86x; 01-03-2013 at 05:27 PM.

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    Member JJ-30's Avatar
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    Great thread,

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    The Rhymenoceros Jimmors's Avatar
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    Yeah....looks awfully familiar....
    I'm trying//to let go//of maybe//but maybe's just so//very interesting//Oh, what a thing.

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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    wonder how that looks against a guy like Cowher, Bellechick, Sean Peyton, Mike Tomlin, Dungy....

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    I'm BACK, Jack... or something..

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    Wow Shark, this article looks remarkably like the UFAN thread that on that OTHER board about a year ago. He tried to make these EXACT same points and he even asked me to check his numbers for him. He was then ripped and ridiculed as he normally was, labeled for vile opinions based on his opinions against Lovie. That was about my final straw. I just remember how all those "superior" posters labeled these stats as meaningless and stupid over and over, just hammering him. Now it shows up here. Perhaps all those "enlightened" posters should see this article and be reminded of thier past opinions. I'm sure they will duck it and find a way to point fingers at others all the while dening their past opinions.

    There is a reason I never participate over there anymore. The fans here are much more rational and respectful.
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    Member Shark86x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4DaBERS View Post
    Wow Shark, this article looks remarkably like the UFAN thread that on that OTHER board about a year ago. He tried to make these EXACT same points and he even asked me to check his numbers for him. He was then ripped and ridiculed as he normally was, labeled for vile opinions based on his opinions against Lovie. That was about my final straw. I just remember how all those "superior" posters labeled these stats as meaningless and stupid over and over, just hammering him. Now it shows up here. Perhaps all those "enlightened" posters should see this article and be reminded of thier past opinions. I'm sure they will duck it and find a way to point fingers at others all the while dening their past opinions.

    There is a reason I never participate over there anymore. The fans here are much more rational and respectful.
    I don't recall seeing an article like this before. Jimmors says it looks familiar too. This article has todays date, but I guess it's possible it's been done before and I hadn't seen it. I actually wasn't trying to make any points with this, just trying to see what the various records were - overall and against winning/losing teams.

    It turns my stomach how people gang up on each other over there, and that's why i try to stay upstairs in the paid forum. Great inside info, and no attacks, just not enough posters. But there are still a couple guys over there I consider friends, so I can't really leave permanently. But this is the best free board around, and I consider this one home now.

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    Member Shark86x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaschnagelnator View Post


    Thanks, I had ALMOST forgotten THAT look. I guess Lovie's deer in the headlights look wasn't so bad after all.

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    Senior Member 4DaBERS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark86x View Post
    I don't recall seeing an article like this before. Jimmors says it looks familiar too. This article has todays date, but I guess it's possible it's been done before and I hadn't seen it. I actually wasn't trying to make any points with this, just trying to see what the various records were - overall and against winning/losing teams.

    It turns my stomach how people gang up on each other over there, and that's why i try to stay upstairs in the paid forum. Great inside info, and no attacks, just not enough posters. But there are still a couple guys over there I consider friends, so I can't really leave permanently. But this is the best free board around, and I consider this one home now.
    Sorry, you misunderstood. I was refering to a private thread, not another article. Thats my point; this is a written article that helps validate a point he was making himself. Regardless, it's a moot point. Thanks for sharing, because it DOES have merit.
    The Greatest form of revenge is MASSIVE success.

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    Member Rakk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark86x View Post
    I don't recall seeing an article like this before. Jimmors says it looks familiar too.
    Check this thread out
    http://www.dabears.com/showthread.ph...-at-Mediocrity

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