Cutler's fundamentals `horrendous,' must change: Esiason

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01-04-2013, 06:23 PM
lklrlolnlilklsox

Well, he's gotten pretty good at the fundamentals extending his one-second blocking while running for his life every other snap.
01-04-2013, 06:28 PM
Henry Burris

If that was a correct analysis, would we need to be more open to taking Kellen Davis back? He did show he had potential under Martz, so I wonder if a coaching change could change someone like him into a better player.
01-04-2013, 06:33 PM
Urlachnessmonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Burris

If that was a correct analysis, would we need to be more open to taking Kellen Davis back? He did show he had potential under Martz, so I wonder if a coaching change could change someone like him into a better player.

Potential to block. He has no playmaking ability. I trust Spaeth and even Rodriguez to at least be consistent at TE.
01-04-2013, 07:43 PM
JustAnotherBearsFan99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Per usual, it's all the OL's fault. Guess what, more then not he was not hurried or sacked. 38 sacks 434+ attempts, lets assume that he's hurried 2x's as often as sacked(that's a big number and I doubt it was that often), 76+38 114 times out of 434 attempts. That leaves a solid 300 attempts where he was clean....what happened then?

Stop w/this idea that he'll be good enough just w/a OL or this or that. HE needs to improve or it won't matter.

I've said repeatedly that Jay has to improve. But fair is fair. The guy also took a hellacious 3-year beating Ric.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USA...16ac2a14e2a4ec

Dancing with Mr. Suh...

http://www.ffspin.com/wp-content/upl...concussion.gif

Another day, another concussion...

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/L...s1tSoQoJ6l.jpg

We like our chances...
01-04-2013, 07:59 PM
MPBears68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Per usual, it's all the OL's fault. Guess what, more then not he was not hurried or sacked. 38 sacks 434+ attempts, lets assume that he's hurried 2x's as often as sacked(that's a big number and I doubt it was that often), 76+38 114 times out of 434 attempts. That leaves a solid 300 attempts where he was clean....what happened then?

Stop w/this idea that he'll be good enough just w/a OL or this or that. HE needs to improve or it won't matter.

Geez, Ric, yeah he can stand to get better no doubt, but how the hell do you expect that to happen with a sieve for an OL and "receivers" like Davis and Hester?

Give the guy a reasonable supporting cast--a decent OL, competent coaches, and a 4th (REAL) receiving option--and then let's see...
01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
bearsinhouston

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPBears68

Geez, Ric, yeah he can stand to get better no doubt, but how the hell do you expect that to happen with a sieve for an OL and "receivers" like Davis and Hester?

Give the guy a reasonable supporting cast--a decent OL, competent coaches, and a 4th (REAL) receiving option--and then let's see...

I agree with both these positions. I think that the OL has been a crutch that has been used for all of our bad play. Cutler has had time multiple times and I honestly did not see good QB play out of him. I think there are issues. At the same time, I think a QB plays differently when his mentality is always watching for a jailbreak. Jay did not play like this when he first came to Chicago. I want to see what happens and how he reacts to to some protection, stability and a capable OC. It's possible we Grossman'ed him, but I am hoping that he will rebound with some confidence in his surroundings. That will also allow him to get even better by being able to work on his fundamentals.

At this point, I do see problems, but am hoping that things work out. I think there is a very good chance of it. Should be a lesson to any other bright GM's that want to bring in a franchise QB without sufficient protection.
01-04-2013, 08:13 PM
Riczaj01

never said he didn't, so do a lot of other qb's, it's not like he's getting hit 10 times more then the next guy.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

Chicago ranked 27th out of 32 teams for sacks down almost a full percent from last year(8.3x from 9.3x) He was sacked fewer times per pass attempt then last year. Not all sacks were b/c the OL sucked, many were b/c HE held onto the ball to long. Again this is starting to sound like the excuses given to Rex and Kyle, and although Kyle improved to have his best #'s while in Den, he still didn't get wins.

How many times has it been said, OL/OC/WR/QB were all issues last year; there are ton's of threads soley dedicated to tearing apart the WR's(outside Marshal), to the OL, to the OC, yet time and again when someone critises Cutler everyone spouts off about the OL or the OC or abourt the WR and IF we had a perfect team how great Cutler could be. It's absurd that there cannot be one thread w/legit critism of Cutler w/out someone acting as if someone is stating HE is the only problem.

All qb's have imperfect teams, Brady doesn't always have great WR's or RB's, he still wins, Rogers doesn't have a great OL or a run game, he still wins, Manning doesn't have a great D(in Indy he still won), in Den he doesn't have great WR's/RB's, he still wins. To many still want to believe that JUST fixing everythign around him is enough, and it's not. HE, the guy that is supposed to be the franchise qb, is not playing well enough regardless of the talent around him.
01-04-2013, 08:18 PM
MPBears68

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

I agree with both these positions. I think that the OL has been a crutch that has been used for all of our bad play. Cutler has had time multiple times and I honestly did not see good QB play out of him. I think there are issues. At the same time, I think a QB plays differently when his mentality is always watching for a jailbreak. Jay did not play like this when he first came to Chicago. I want to see what happens and how he reacts to to some protection, stability and a capable OC. It's possible we Grossman'ed him, but I am hoping that he will rebound with some confidence in his surroundings. That will also allow him to get even better by being able to work on his fundamentals.

At this point, I do see problems, but am hoping that things work out. I think there is a very good chance of it. Should be a lesson to any other bright GM's that want to bring in a franchise QB without sufficient protection.

Gee, ya think? I'm not trying to apologize for or excuse every Cutler screwup, but the dude has had SHIT OLs (not merely "challenging" but actual TOTAL SHIT) for 3-4 years now. He hasn't had anything approaching a real WR corps until this year and his #2 & #3 men were hurt and out most of the season. Who were next up? Devin Hester and Kellen Davis who collectively don't add up to Randall Cobb's aunt Betty. Then add in the revolving door of crapola OCs and a HC who didn't know NFL offense from his arse.

I'm not in favor of extending him now, but lets at least give the guy a fighting chance next year before deciding.
01-04-2013, 08:22 PM
JustAnotherBearsFan99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

never said he didn't, so do a lot of other qb's, it's not like he's getting hit 10 times more then the next guy.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

Chicago ranked 27th out of 32 teams for sacks down almost a full percent from last year(8.3x from 9.3x) He was sacked fewer times per pass attempt then last year. Not all sacks were b/c the OL sucked, many were b/c HE held onto the ball to long. Again this is starting to sound like the excuses given to Rex and Kyle, and although Kyle improved to have his best #'s while in Den, he still didn't get wins.

How many times has it been said, OL/OC/WR/QB were all issues last year; there are ton's of threads soley dedicated to tearing apart the WR's(outside Marshal), to the OL, to the OC, yet time and again when someone critises Cutler everyone spouts off about the OL or the OC or abourt the WR and IF we had a perfect team how great Cutler could be. It's absurd that there cannot be one thread w/legit critism of Cutler w/out someone acting as if someone is stating HE is the only problem.

All qb's have imperfect teams, Brady doesn't always have great WR's or RB's, he still wins, Rogers doesn't have a great OL or a run game, he still wins, Manning doesn't have a great D(in Indy he still won), in Den he doesn't have great WR's/RB's, he still wins. To many still want to believe that JUST fixing everythign around him is enough, and it's not. HE, the guy that is supposed to be the franchise qb, is not playing well enough regardless of the talent around him.

Cutler has to improve.

But that being said, I don't think I'd compare Tice's offense to Green Bay, the Patriots & Brady, and to Peyton Manning's Broncos. Cutler didn't have anything approaching those guys resources.
01-04-2013, 08:49 PM
MPBears68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

never said he didn't, so do a lot of other qb's, it's not like he's getting hit 10 times more then the next guy.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

Chicago ranked 27th out of 32 teams for sacks down almost a full percent from last year(8.3x from 9.3x) He was sacked fewer times per pass attempt then last year. Not all sacks were b/c the OL sucked, many were b/c HE held onto the ball to long. Again this is starting to sound like the excuses given to Rex and Kyle, and although Kyle improved to have his best #'s while in Den, he still didn't get wins.

How many times has it been said, OL/OC/WR/QB were all issues last year; there are ton's of threads soley dedicated to tearing apart the WR's(outside Marshal), to the OL, to the OC, yet time and again when someone critises Cutler everyone spouts off about the OL or the OC or abourt the WR and IF we had a perfect team how great Cutler could be. It's absurd that there cannot be one thread w/legit critism of Cutler w/out someone acting as if someone is stating HE is the only problem.

All qb's have imperfect teams, Brady doesn't always have great WR's or RB's, he still wins, Rogers doesn't have a great OL or a run game, he still wins, Manning doesn't have a great D(in Indy he still won), in Den he doesn't have great WR's/RB's, he still wins. To many still want to believe that JUST fixing everythign around him is enough, and it's not. HE, the guy that is supposed to be the franchise qb, is not playing well enough regardless of the talent around him.

No one I know of is saying that Cutler is in the elite category of QBs like Manning, Brady, or Rodgers. He isn't. Very likely will never be. Yes, there's plenty he needs to improve upon in his own game independent of his supporting cast (on and off the field). But...he's our QB for the forseeable future so let's get him all the possibly available tools he needs to maximize his potential and then judge it fairly again in a year.

By the way, even if Joe Montana ver 2.0 somehow falls magically into Emery's lap in the 4th round of this year's draft, he's going to need all that shit too to have a snowball's chance of reaching his ceiling too. So let's do it because we need to do it either way and stop worrying for now about Jay's "mechanics" since there is no other other 2013 option anyhow.

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