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Thread: Keep the Defense Intact..........Some Real Wisdom Here

  1. #41
    Member rich1978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPBears68 View Post
    I completely agree with this strategy. As in focus on what's broken (O) and don't "fix" what isn't (D & ST). My best guess from his presser is that Emery is thinking that way too and wants to leave the non-O elements of the team, both players and coaches, intact as much as possible.

    But that may realistically limit the HC options. In order to do that, a HC candidate would have to be on board with that plan and not want to bring in "his guys" or "his philosophy" to other phases of the staff/roster belong offense. I don't know how many new HCs would want to have his hands tied so to speak that way as a precondition of accepting the job. I would hope that good candidates would see the wisdom in that and not let ego get in the way by insisting on "total control" from the get-go. This discussion is probably a major element in the preliminary interviews and may eliminate some from consideration who want to change too much outside of O.

    My fingers are crossed on Emery finding a solid offense-oriented HC candidate who is content with not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
    I agree also and it's refreshing to see someone like emery in charge, I find myself agreeing with almost all he does, unlike the Angelo days which were the exact opposite!

    I'd argue the opposite to you on the HC impact though. I think it's a major draw to a prospective HC to know that half the job is done already (barring getting younger at LB and some tweaking) and that it's not unlikley that the focus of FA and the draft will be the offence. More picks for the offensive minded HC to spend on what he knows best.....

    Its gotta be a draw to come to a team that needs tweaking as opposed to a full rebuild, whatever way you look at it. Out of all the teams looking for a HC we must be the most enticing prospect for wannabe coachs. how many 10-6 teams with solid D and ST, a franchise QB, RB, WR are looking for head coaches right now?

    fingers crossed emery continues the good work from last off-season. He did the honourable thing, he didnt change everything at once, he gave Lovie the chance to make things right, he improved us at WR with Marshall. Now we move onwards and upwards. Im glad that, regardless of record, missing the play-offs is unacceptable. For far too long, the proud and great franchise that is the Bears has accepted mediocrity, it's time to raise the bar and time to make things happen...

    Cautiously optimistic
    Last edited by rich1978; 01-06-2013 at 08:31 PM.

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  • #42
    Yankee Doodle Dandy Dagan81's Avatar
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    I tend to believe Emery is going to look into keeping the 4-3 alignment intact, but I don't think he'll go for someone based on a Cover 2 scheme. I think he's whole hog after an offensive-minded coach with his druthers at defense being put on the back burner. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's willing to sacrifice some of the defensive prowess this team has built over the decades in order to modernize it to the way the rest of the league operates, which is to build a big offense first and worry about defense after that. The Bears are living proof that a team can have a great defense and not win a ton of games; however, teams like the Patriots, the Saints, and the Packers win games by having offensive juggernauts. If that's what it takes to win nowadays, I'm all for it.

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    Senior Member MPBears68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1978 View Post
    I agree also and it's refreshing to see someone like emery in charge, I find myself agreeing with almost all he does, unlike the Angelo days which were the exact opposite!

    I'd argue the opposite to you on the HC impact though. I think it's a major draw to a prospective HC to know that half the job is done already (barring getting younger at LB and some tweaking) and that it's not unlikley that the focus of FA and the draft will be the offence. More picks for the offensive minded HC to spend on what he knows best.....

    Its gotta be a draw to come to a team that needs tweaking as opposed to a full rebuild, whatever way you look at it. Out of all the teams looking for a HC we must be the most enticing prospect for wannabe coachs. how many 10-6 teams with solid D and ST, a franchise QB, RB, WR are looking for head coaches right now?

    fingers crossed emery continues the good work from last off-season. He did the honourable thing, he didnt change everything at once, he gave Lovie the chance to make things right, he improved us at WR with Marshall. Now we move onwards and upwards. Im glad that, regardless of record, missing the play-offs is unacceptable. For far too long, the proud and great franchise that is the Bears has accepted mediocrity, it's time to raise the bar and time to make things happen...

    Cautiously optimistic
    Well put, Rich. The D was 5th in yards, 1st in takeaways, and 1st in Aikman rankings across the entire NFL. It is clearly NOT the problem. Lets give Lovie some credit where credit is due here. That's not to say that a new HC can't tweak or tinker or that the D is sacred and inviolate, but....tread lightly here IMO.

    We don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 as Emery clearly stated. We don't have a huge athletic NT guy (which is a bear to find) or the OLB/rushbackers to run it well. We have 4-3 personnel, period. And damn good ones. As far as the sub-alignment scheme goes, we don't run purely a "Tampa-2". Yes, our coverages are zone-heavy and we blitz less than average. I have no problem with the idea of mixing it up a bit more, but recall that we have 2 pro-bowl CBs who excel in a zone-based scheme and may not perform as well in the more man-to-man type coverages that a heavy-blitz defense requires. I certainly don't see us replacing Jennings or Tillman this year for sure and our LBs are better cover-men than blitzers too.

    I don't buy the "passé" argument. I'll take top-5 or 10 year in and year out, passé or not. Remember also that another advantage of running a D scheme in the minority of the NFL's current fad/trend is that man-cover CBs and blitzing LBs get picked over much more quickly in the draft than personnel who fit our D better. Tweak and tinker, fine...just don't throw out the baby with the bath water, that's all.

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  • #44
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    As has been pointed out by several other people here throughout the Lovie Smith tenure, the Cover 2 is a base and more often than not they are playing other forms of defense. Go look it up and stop wasting my time with stuff that has been discussed over and over.

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    Here you go Dags.

    Quote Originally Posted by Butka View Post
    I've seen a lot of confusion from people about our defense. From broadcasters, journalists, to posters on the board, people keep blaming the cover 2. The fact of the matter is, this defense runs more cover 3 than cover 2.

    Cover 3 is basically when there are 3 deep defenders covering the field. The deep field is divided into 3rds. The biggest advantage with cover 3 is that it's stronger against the deep bomb because the 3 deep shell keeps everything in front of it. Another big advantage is that you can bring 8 in the box. The 8th man in the box is flexible to blitz, support the run or defend the second level of the pass defense. In it's most basic form, with no blitz, this is how the responsibility of the coverage will look.



    Keep in mind through all of this, that responsibilities can change between personnel. The two corners and free safety don't always have to be the ones covering the deep 3rds. It could be both safeties and one corner, or one of many other permutations.

    In the cover 3, the Bears have successfully executed the scheme's bigest advantages. They've mostly prevented getting burned for deep TDs, and they've shut down the run rather well. The weakness in the scheme is the soft zone between 2nd and 3rd tier of coverage and that's where we get exploited.

    Below is an example of how the Bears might look before the snap. As you can see, we'll have 8 in the box and as many as 7 within a couple of yards of the line of scrimmage.



    Post snap, all of the defenders who are not blitzing must first read run or pass, if they read pass, they must retreat to their coverage zone. Also, we sometimes have our second tier of coverage in man coverage.



    Here's how an opposing team might attack this with a 3 receiver set. We could have a nickelback instead of a sam... it's arbitrary. A common strategy is to run a couple of receivers hard upfield, sending the outside 3rds to retreat hard, keeping in mind that all of the deep 3rds need to keep everything in front of them. You might see a charging receiver hit brakes and sit, or they may continue with the fly or deep post to further widen the gap between the 2nd and 3rd tier of the coverage.

    The opposing offense is in pink, because the opposing offense is a bunch of pansies:


    The problem we have is that we often play it with a good portion of our second tier coverage playing too close too the line. This further widens the gap between the 2nd and 3rd tier from the start. Additionally, they're retreating backwards, expending energy, just to get into a basic position. By the time they get there, the offense's play is well developed. This is why quick slants can work so well. Also, we can't get a jam on the quick routes because the corners are usually responsible for the deep thirds and keeping everything in front of them. That's why the corners are often so far off the line. Making a mistake on a jam or tight coverage compromises the whole scheme.

    The cover 3 defense has some nice benefits, but frankly I don't think we have the right personnel for it. And the way we play it, I don't think any human beings can really execute what's being asked of these guys. There's so much wasted energy by bluffing the blitz and retreating, it's ridiculous at times. Secondly, our corners aren't fast enough to jam a receiver and then cover deep thirds.. very very few are, but because we often don't have our second tier of guys setup to cut off the quick slant, we would need this from our corners.

    I'm not saying abandon the cover 3, but let's run more cover 2. It's what our personnel is built for. Our corners can get a jam or flatten the receivers route and then release to the safeties that are two deep. Keep 7 in the box more, and off the line. Here's a basic coverage look at cover 2. Keep in mind, like cover 3, that 2nd tier of guys (LBs and corners) can go into man coverage instead of a zone.



    Don't be jealous of my MS Paint skills Nerrad.

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    There are other posts throughout the Lovie era that break it down as well, but this is a start and I don't feel like doing any more digging

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    what we should use more is a defense with more blitz plays... Imagine Shea as SLB coming on the blitz. Would give us 5 rushers and he could play up to his strength. His pass D isn't that bad.

    Zone Blitz D isn't that bad either

  • #48
    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagan81 View Post
    Oh really? Please inform me, oh knowledgeable one, how the Bears run their defense.
    Dagan, he's right they've been running more and more of a Cover 3, or a cover 1. It's what is allowing them to blitz w/DB's more, and why Shea was dropping into coverage. They still use the Cover 2 a lot, but it's not a mainstay, and hasn't been since about the 2nd or 3rd year of Hot Rod being the DC.


    I personally could give 2 shakes if the D stays in tact or not, right now I have full trust in Emery's plan, which includes the HC and what the HC wants to do. If that means breaking up the D's band for something that will be more effective then the bend and break, if we don't get a takeaway, D then I'm okay w/that.
    Last edited by Riczaj01; 01-07-2013 at 06:41 AM.

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  • #49
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    Seeing how Emery is the type of person to keep things simple, he would probably want a HC that keeps all of his thoughts focused on offense. The Bears had it's best year in many ways since the 80's on defense, and are looking at getting the offense between efficient and proficient, Emery is not going to want or need a guy that also wants to try his hand at defense. Just fix the offense, and Rod Marinelli will gear the defense for another run.


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  • #50
    Senior Member GermansbombedPH's Avatar
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    don't you think this is a bit shortsighted? Our coach should value STs and D nearly as much as O. Sometime, our D will retire or be gone or even Marinelli will be gone. What would you say then? I want a coach that knows he needs both sides of the ball to win.

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