OLine - stay patient?

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

Yep. Tice's blocking scheme was simpler. I can't see Webb's football I.Q suddenly improving. We've all heard the "getting the ball out quicker" when Tice took over for Martz. And we all know how that went.

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Martz never had the players to run his offense to begin with and Tice never knew wtf he was doing and preserved a lot of Martz's offense with it's downfield passing game. Tice also ignored the receiving abilities of both Bush and Forte.

What made it work at all was Cutler to Marshall. Without that we suck even more. Personally I think we have better lineman to run a zone blocking scheme that that mano a mano power scheme Tice liked so much and we have RB who runs better behind that kind of blocking. If Tice's scheme actually was simpler why did the line regress as much as it did. They played much better at the end of 2011 than they did all of last year.

In a nutshell it was fucked up and until Kromer and Trestman can unfuck it up I don't know that we have a good idea of what we're gonna see out of that bunch. All I know is that Kromer took guys no better than this and made a good line out of them so I'm willing to see what he can do Pink and Blues Brothers of maybe we should call them the Five Matadors....ole'.

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Originally Posted by soulman

Well he hasn't been with the Bears but here he ran more of a WCO style offense and went to the Pro Bowl even though the team did no better than 8-8. I really think it's about bringing all of the offensive factors together and coordinating them the way successful offenses do. We've lacked an ability to do that for years and years.

I'd prefer that we get a vet LT in FA but I still thinks that's a 50/50 deal. The Giants just released Bradshaw, Canty and Boley to free up some cap space so my guess is they won't let Beatty hit FA. Long wants way too much given his injuries and declining play, Albert is a possible if KC drafts a LT and then there's Bushrod who may or may not be a better pass blocker than Webb depending on what stats you believe.

So whether they want another vet LT or not getting one may still be a challenge. I guess in this case I'm just preparing myself for any potential outcome there might be.

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That is a GREAT point.

But here's the thing I worry about. The offense will have a lot of significant changes, which is a good thing due to the fact it means we're trying to get better - to dig out of the deep hole that Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith put us in.

But for the players to have faith in the new offense & the coaches, I fear that it is critically important to at least have a solid offensive line in place when the Bears try to roll out this new offense. If the oline falters, then it's a "house of cards" and the players (and fans) will think it's just like past years on offense. The players on offense have been fed a line of crap for years now. They have "bought in" each year, only to see they've been scammed. Ron Turner was sent packing, Mad Mike too, and then Lovie with his little buddy Tice.

Now the players are being asked to trust, just one more time. Trust in this guy from the Canadian league. THIS time they have it right. Well, they better HOPE so.

Think about it. Even if we had a GREAT oline in place. Veterans who knew their stuff. It would still be a huge change this season that will see miscues and hiccups. It's probably not going to be a work of art right out of the chute - even if the oline wasn't a problem.

But the oline is a problem.

When I consider the above stuff, then I figure the Bears better go ALL OUT to get the LT position solved. I'm thinking Webb is probably going to be the swing tackle (backup) at best. There better be a veteran FA at LT, or you'll see the wheels come off when Cutler gets pounded (or worse, injured) in those first games under the Trestman regime. People won't buy the "Trestman pixie dust" thing now. They've heard it all before. The players - including Cutler/Marshall - will lose faith if that oline isn't the best product possible on day-1. If they look over and see Webb giving them the goofy smile after Cutler's crumpled on the field hurt - then the Tresman honeymoon is done.

That's my 2-cents worth anyway.

They HAVE to go big or stay at home, with rebuilding the oline. Tresman has everything on the line here (pun intended).

http://allthingsignant.files.wordpre...tler-sack8.jpg

we have tried this theory for 6 years now it doesnt bleeping work

fix the damn oline GM that is your damn job and fairy dust garbage doesnt cut it

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Originally Posted by motownbear

we have tried this theory for 6 years now it doesnt bleeping work

fix the damn oline GM that is your damn job and fairy dust garbage doesnt cut it

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Exactly.

And why did it have to be this hard to figure out we need an oline to have a decent NFL team? It's like we keep shooting a hole through our foot every year - and then wonder why the heck our foot hurts.

Bunch of damned half-wits at Halas Hall.

dont worry we will try the same bull for the next season lol

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Originally Posted by motownbear

we have tried this theory for 6 years now it doesnt bleeping work

fix the damn oline GM that is your damn job and fairy dust garbage doesnt cut it

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I think the pure fact is that you win offensively with a good QB and who's playing in the trenches in front of him. I don't think that truism is lost and either Emery or Trestman. Emery brought in the best HC he could find for Cutler and then Trestman brought in the best OC he could for his line and running game. Those two, as much as the players themselves, is where the difference needs to come from.

I have zero faith in Edwin starting anywhere, especially not at the ridiculously demanding position of C. Here's what we know about him; he gets negative push in the run game which makes him a push with Garza, his movement skills showed up very poorly when he subbed for Chris and we lost half of our run plays outside the tackles, he got passed up not once but twice by guys who hadn't a single start at OG in the pros or college when shit hit the fan (Carimi and Brown).

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Originally Posted by soulman

How do we know what EWill can and can't do? I can't ever remember seeing him play even one snap at OC. You may be right but I don't think we have any real idea of what he's capable of there. If he's got the goods now would be a good time to show it because Garza is 34 and in the last year of his deal. This is his shot at proving he's the guy who can take it from there.

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You are right soul bro, we don't "know". However, he is coming up on his 5th year in the pro's, and he had an opportunity to take the Center job last year when Kruetz left. Now, we can say that perhaps our coaches didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and simply put Garza in there because he knew the offense better, and that would be reasonable, but he obviously did not distinguish himself as anything "better" than Garza at that time. He has had opportunities at Guard as well, and frankly, if you can't beat out the guys that we have had in there up till now, then how good is he? I've watched him play Center in pre-season, and he's done "OK" against the third team DT's, but when he's played OG in the regular season, not much to write home about.



The only solace I take in all this is that Kromer has been one of those unique coaches that have been able to make nobodies respectable in New Orleans, but even he started out pretty good with Ben Grubbs as a 1st Round pick and at least Jermon Bushrod and Jahri Evans were 4th rounders


Lets look at our Superbowl Champs. The 49ers enjoy Joe Staley, Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati, all 1st rounders, as well as a 5th in Jonathan Goodwin, and a UDFA Alex Boone (hey, there are UDFA's out there).
The Ravens also had 2 first rounders (McKinnie and Oher) as well as Osemele, Yanda and Birk (2^nd 3^rd and 6^th rounders respectively).

Ultimately we don’t know that EWill will be bad, but he’s another one of those UDFA’s that our previous administration loved so much. Before anyone says it, I KNOW that draft position doesn’t mean everything, but it DOES reflect the promise some of these guys have had coming in. I KNOW there are 1^st round busts and I know there are hidden gems in some undrafted guys, but our lineup shows very little promise. Outside of Gabe Carimi, this is the collection of talent we have:


J Webb 7^th round

Lance Lewis 7^th round

Cory Brandon UDFA

James Brown UDFA

Jonathon Scott 5^th round

Roberto Garza 4^th Round (and old)

Edwin Williams UDFA

Derek Dennis UDFA

Chris Riley UDFA
Nick Pieschel UDFA


Man, it looks even worse when you list them like that. Now come on...really, how much magic is Kromer expected to perform here. Hey, we may find a diamond in there somewhere, but the odds are against it and even if we do, we need to find some real legit talent to go with them. Not everyone has to be a high draft pick, but to be realistic, you need to have at least 3 that are legit 3^rd round or higher. You can sprinkle these guys in, but you simply cannot build a respectable NFL line from the 4th round on down, you just can't. Guys like this (our starter) are littered all over the league on benches and practice squads and in the CFL, few are starting caliber in the NFL.

Wait, I thought Grubbs was drafted by the Ravens. If i'm wrong, this could change everything we know about football...

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IF this new regime of Emery/Trestman, fails to significantly upgrade the offensive line THIS year, then:

Emery/Trestman = Angelo/Lovie = Fail

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That's just wrong and ridiculous. Sounds like panic and chicken little.


we have a young group and if we only add 1 new starter, it could work out very well. We don't even know who sucked more, the OL or the coaches. Next year, we will have a OL coach that knows what he's doing and has proven it and a coach/play caller who prefers to keep his QB healthy and wants to move the ball forward. Jay won't get hit as much next year as we are used to it, even if 5 guys out of this forum play OL just because of the better coaching.