Thread: OLine - stay patient?

Originally Posted by 4DaBERS

You are right soul bro, we don't "know". However, he is coming up on his 5th year in the pro's, and he had an opportunity to take the Center job last year when Kruetz left. Now, we can say that perhaps our coaches didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and simply put Garza in there because he knew the offense better, and that would be reasonable, but he obviously did not distinguish himself as anything "better" than Garza at that time. He has had opportunities at Guard as well, and frankly, if you can't beat out the guys that we have had in there up till now, then how good is he? I've watched him play Center in pre-season, and he's done "OK" against the third team DT's, but when he's played OG in the regular season, not much to write home about.



The only solace I take in all this is that Kromer has been one of those unique coaches that have been able to make nobodies respectable in New Orleans, but even he started out pretty good with Ben Grubbs as a 1st Round pick and at least Jermon Bushrod and Jahri Evans were 4th rounders


Lets look at our Superbowl Champs. The 49ers enjoy Joe Staley, Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati, all 1st rounders, as well as a 5th in Jonathan Goodwin, and a UDFA Alex Boone (hey, there are UDFA's out there).
The Ravens also had 2 first rounders (McKinnie and Oher) as well as Osemele, Yanda and Birk (2^nd 3^rd and 6^th rounders respectively).

Ultimately we don’t know that EWill will be bad, but he’s another one of those UDFA’s that our previous administration loved so much. Before anyone says it, I KNOW that draft position doesn’t mean everything, but it DOES reflect the promise some of these guys have had coming in. I KNOW there are 1^st round busts and I know there are hidden gems in some undrafted guys, but our lineup shows very little promise. Outside of Gabe Carimi, this is the collection of talent we have:


J Webb 7^th round

Lance Lewis 7^th round

Cory Brandon UDFA

James Brown UDFA

Jonathon Scott 5^th round

Roberto Garza 4^th Round (and old)

Edwin Williams UDFA

Derek Dennis UDFA

Chris Riley UDFA
Nick Pieschel UDFA


Man, it looks even worse when you list them like that. Now come on...really, how much magic is Kromer expected to perform here. Hey, we may find a diamond in there somewhere, but the odds are against it and even if we do, we need to find some real legit talent to go with them. Not everyone has to be a high draft pick, but to be realistic, you need to have at least 3 that are legit 3^rd round or higher. You can sprinkle these guys in, but you simply cannot build a respectable NFL line from the 4th round on down, you just can't. Guys like this (our starter) are littered all over the league on benches and practice squads and in the CFL, few are starting caliber in the NFL.

All true brother but I'm just falling back on my position that says relax. We actually have a OL coach now as our OC/Run Game Guy who has made chicken salad out of chicken shit before and good chicken salad at that. I'll let him decide what to do with that bunch and whatever he tells Emery he needs to fix the problem I'm gonna assume Emery will get it for him sooner than later.

One thing we know for certain is that Emery is far more offensive minded right now than his predecessor was and now we also have an offensive minded HC who hired a very good OL coach as his OC. Trestman is gonna devote his time to Jay and the passing game and let Kromer evaluate his OL and what needs to be done to better the blocking and advance the running game.

At some point in the very near future these two are gonna need to give Phil Emery a list of what and maybe even who the need to turn this around and Phil is gonna go out and do his damnedest to get those guys. The sky isn't falling because Phil Emery has seen the cracks and is all about fixing them before it does fall.

I think I said just that in another post. Emery isn't delusional about his offense the way JA and Lovie were. He knows he has issues their that need to be dealt with now and his first step towards dealing with them was to hire a coach who could help fix his franchise QB. The next step that took place less than 24 hours later was the HC hired his former associate to fix his OLine. I really don't know how you could get after a set of problems any better of quicker than that.

I'll be just as disappointed as the rest of you if we don't see any major improvements in both Cutler and that OL this year but until we all see the specific personnel moves Phil Emery takes we're just guessing. Some columnists and posters are taking one approach to it while others are taking others. I'm kind of sitting in the middle of this trying to figure out the ideal vs the possible vs the worst case scenario so I don't end up surprised by any of it. Here's what I see by position.

OC- Unless we draft Jones I don't see much help coming from FA. The cupboard is bare as far as UFAs who are any better than who we have and we probably aren't gonna get a RFA with a draft pick we don't have to burn. So it's either Garza or EWill if he can step up and claim it.

OT - I think Emery is gonna try to find some help in FA but whether he successful of not remains to be seen. Spending a lot of cap $$$ he doesn't have to get a small improvement isn't his style. At best we end up with a true starting vet LT who can outplay Webb and move him over to RT to compete with Carimi and at worst we get somebody who can at least push him all year long and provide backup as a Swing OT. We're invested in Carimi so he'll get ever opportunity to turn his game around.

OG - We need a LG period. If we can't get a LT in FA maybe we sign an OG but to me it looks like we can draft an OG and not a LT so I'm not sure he'll spend top dollar for the best vs just finding guys to upgrade with like he tried to do with Rachal. I doubt he brings Spencer back unless he figures Louis will take longer to recover than expected. If that's the case then Spencer may be cheaper than other alternatives at RG but he's no LG so he's nothing more than an emergency backup. I think we could do better with a younger less expensive guy but we'll see what they decide.

Summary - It would be great if we could upgrade LT through FA and draft a starting LG like Cooper. In one year we'll have rebuilt the left side of the line and the problems on the right should improve once Louis and Carimi are 100% healthy and back in football shape. As a hedge against that if you can pull off those moves on the left side you have Webb as a RT and someone else as a RG (Spencer, Brown, a FA) to back or compete with Louis.

I believe that's a possible scenario. The worst case is that we don't find a vet LT and instead have to go with Webb and someone to compete with and him and still have someone to compete with Carimi. RT has to improve one way or another too. Then it comes down to whether it's better to take that top OG in the draft or be forced into taking the 4th or 5th best OT out of need and depend more on Kromer to improve their overall play.

Right now I'm opting to think positively about that possible scenario as long as that possibility still exists. Within the next month or so we'll know. Then whatever happens I'll adjust my thinking from there.

Originally Posted by soulman

All true brother but I'm just falling back on my position that says relax. We actually have a OL coach now as our OC/Run Game Guy who has made chicken salad out of chicken shit before and good chicken salad at that. I'll let him decide what to do with that bunch and whatever he tells Emery he needs to fix the problem I'm gonna assume Emery will get it for him sooner than later.

One thing we know for certain is that Emery is far more offensive minded right now than his predecessor was and now we also have an offensive minded HC who hired a very good OL coach as his OC. Trestman is gonna devote his time to Jay and the passing game and let Kromer evaluate his OL and what needs to be done to better the blocking and advance the running game.

At some point in the very near future these two are gonna need to give Phil Emery a list of what and maybe even who the need to turn this around and Phil is gonna go out and do his damnedest to get those guys. The sky isn't falling because Phil Emery has seen the cracks and is all about fixing them before it does fall.

I think I said just that in another post. Emery isn't delusional about his offense the way JA and Lovie were. He knows he has issues their that need to be dealt with now and his first step towards dealing with them was to hire a coach who could help fix his franchise QB. The next step that took place less than 24 hours later was the HC hired his former associate to fix his OLine. I really don't know how you could get after a set of problems any better of quicker than that.

I'll be just as disappointed as the rest of you if we don't see any major improvements in both Cutler and that OL this year but until we all see the specific personnel moves Phil Emery takes we're just guessing. Some columnists and posters are taking one approach to it while others are taking others. I'm kind of sitting in the middle of this trying to figure out the ideal vs the possible vs the worst case scenario so I don't end up surprised by any of it. Here's what I see by position.

OC- Unless we draft Jones I don't see much help coming from FA. The cupboard is bare as far as UFAs who are any better than who we have and we probably aren't gonna get a RFA with a draft pick we don't have to burn. So it's either Garza or EWill if he can step up and claim it.

OT - I think Emery is gonna try to find some help in FA but whether he successful of not remains to be seen. Spending a lot of cap $$$ he doesn't have to get a small improvement isn't his style. At best we end up with a true starting vet LT who can outplay Webb and move him over to RT to compete with Carimi and at worst we get somebody who can at least push him all year long and provide backup as a Swing OT. We're invested in Carimi so he'll get ever opportunity to turn his game around.

OG - We need a LG period. If we can't get a LT in FA maybe we sign an OG but to me it looks like we can draft an OG and not a LT so I'm not sure he'll spend top dollar for the best vs just finding guys to upgrade with like he tried to do with Rachal. I doubt he brings Spencer back unless he figures Louis will take longer to recover than expected. If that's the case then Spencer may be cheaper than other alternatives at RG but he's no LG so he's nothing more than an emergency backup. I think we could do better with a younger less expensive guy but we'll see what they decide.

Summary - It would be great if we could upgrade LT through FA and draft a starting LG like Cooper. In one year we'll have rebuilt the left side of the line and the problems on the right should improve once Louis and Carimi are 100% healthy and back in football shape. As a hedge against that if you can pull off those moves on the left side you have Webb as a RT and someone else as a RG (Spencer, Brown, a FA) to back or compete with Louis.

I believe that's a possible scenario. The worst case is that we don't find a vet LT and instead have to go with Webb and someone to compete with and him and still have someone to compete with Carimi. RT has to improve one way or another too. Then it comes down to whether it's better to take that top OG in the draft or be forced into taking the 4th or 5th best OT out of need and depend more on Kromer to improve their overall play.

Right now I'm opting to think positively about that possible scenario as long as that possibility still exists. Within the next month or so we'll know. Then whatever happens I'll adjust my thinking from there.

Sounds reasonable to me.

We need to hope Louis comes back from the injury in solid health. He'll need to get back into game shape, but that's fine if the knee is sound and he's physically the same guy from pre-injury. There's probably a good chance that this is the case. But it's not a given. Jared Allen's blindside hit resulted in a very serious injury, and Louis was an explosive 320 pound athlete who puts a lot of stress on that knee (he was a very explosive guy before the injury and a solid pulling guard). We've seen from guys like Carimi and Urlacher, that even if the knee is sound, it still takes some time to get back to pre-injury production. Hopefully too, Carimi can come back. I guess that's not a given either.

I'm going to believe all of the hype about the new coaches being gurus. But in the back of my mind, I believed this with all of my heart and soul before. We were all giddy with joy when the last guru's hit town. We were ready to tar and feather them after a season or two. So I'm kind of in the Missouri mode of "show me" and then I'll believe.

If Emery brings in top talent for the OL, then I'll really feel better. I do believe he will do this, and not be a windbag like Jerry Angelo, Smith and Tice. I'm hoping he can "walk the walk" and not just talk the talk.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

We need to hope Louis comes back from the injury in solid health. He'll need to get back into game shape, but that's fine if the knee is sound and he's physically the same guy from pre-injury. There's probably a good chance that this is the case. But it's not a given. Jared Allen's blindside hit resulted in a very serious injury, and Louis was an explosive 320 pound athlete who puts a lot of stress on that knee (he was a very explosive guy before the injury and a solid pulling guard). We've seen from guys like Carimi and Urlacher, that even if the knee is sound, it still takes some time to get back to pre-injury production. Hopefully too, Carimi can come back. I guess that's not a given either.

I'm going to believe all of the hype about the new coaches being gurus. But in the back of my mind, I believed this with all of my heart and soul before. We were all giddy with joy when the last guru's hit town. We were ready to tar and feather them after a season or two. So I'm kind of in the Missouri mode of "show me" and then I'll believe.

If Emery brings in top talent for the OL, then I'll really feel better. I do believe he will do this, and not be a windbag like Jerry Angelo, Smith and Tice. I'm hoping he can "walk the walk" and not just talk the talk.

I hear ya' 99 but so far I'm basing my thoughts on the main difference between WHO it was that brought those last "gurus" to town. A GM who wouldn't recognize offensive talent if it took a major bite out of his ass and a HC who in nine seasons never cared to learn enough about his offense to ever correct the flaws and assumptions that we all saw and heard so much optimistic blather about?

From the ownership to the front office to the coaching staff this team is being run very differently than it was two or three years ago. Maybe I am being naive but I've been watching this team for four decades and I have never seen them move in this many positive directions this quickly before. We talk about being patient and I'm only taking that to mean that we should be patient as far as seeing what their plan is, not the results.

I don't believe they're any less anxious to restore the Bears as a top NFL franchise than we are. I truly believe George McCaskey wants another SB trophy for Ginny before she dies since the old man (GSH) didn't live long enough to see his Beloved Bears collect theirs. I don't think he wants this team to fall short of that goal before Ginny isn't around to see it too and her time on earth hasn't got all that much longer to run.

The goal of ownership and the front office is restore this franchise to the top of the heap and keep it there and I don't see them sparing any effort or expense to get them there. At least that's what I see from where I sit and I'm not just being a "homer". I'm just as quick to criticize as the next guy when they fuck up but I believe we're gonna see far less of that now than we've been accustomed to in the past. JMHO

checked back one day later and other than Souls post, we end up with unrealistic expectations and more chicken little...


you can't bring in 5 new Lineman in 1 offseason... The line will be adressed, but not as fast as some hope. We'll bring in a new starter for sure. If we are lucky enough it could be 2 new starters. Fact is Webb outplays his contract and will have a spot on the Roster. LT or RT, doesn't matter. Carimi will get another chance as will Brown to win a Roster spot. Louis will be back. Garza won't be replaced this offseason, he will be replaced after next season when his contract ends. EWill will stay for depth. Pretty sure we draft OL with 1st or 2nd and will draft OL later with a 6th or 5th. Then you have basically your line for next season. Add another Vet for depth and roster battle and finally see what you have in a Webb or Carimi. One got better and the other wasn't healthy yet. Garza will end up with his last year here. Maybe we can get an unexpected player who got cut.

We don't have enough Cap Space....