OLine - stay patient?

I know it's hard to imagine, but what if we don't go all in on the OLine this year again?

we have a young line and Garza. We have guys who have talent and earned a good reputation in college. Brown and Carimi can play this game. They need to learn and in Carimis case get back to 100%. EWill can become our new Center. Louis was on his way to the Pro Bowl. Webb HAS improved. That's a fact and not fiction.
If we only draft a LG/OC and bring in a vet for insurance at RG/OT. It may be wise.

Maybe they just need better coaching and (needed) more time?
Maybe a scheme change helps us too? Trestmans a West Coast Offense guy and getting rid of the ball faster would help the line too. Every now and then, Cutler will be able to throw a deep ball and if he's covered we may use Forte more? Forte seems to be a great fit in a West Coast offense. Can catch, run in- and outside, can block.

I know this won't end up being popular, but we have a line with potential and even some depth.

Webb - Draft - EWill - Louis - Carimi
and still have Gaza for some snaps, Brown with potential and a guy like Scott can come back who would be solid enough.


Edit: I know it sucks to stay patient and hope for the best ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GermansbombedPH

I know it's hard to imagine, but what if we don't go all in on the OLine this year again?

we have a young line and Garza. We have guys who have talent and earned a good reputation in college. Brown and Carimi can play this game. They need to learn and in Carimis case get back to 100%. EWill can become our new Center. Louis was on his way to the Pro Bowl. Webb HAS improved. That's a fact and not fiction.
If we only draft a LG/OC and bring in a vet for insurance at RG/OT. It may be wise.

Maybe they just need better coaching and (needed) more time?
Maybe a scheme change helps us too? Trestmans a West Coast Offense guy and getting rid of the ball faster would help the line too. Every now and then, Cutler will be able to throw a deep ball and if he's covered we may use Forte more? Forte seems to be a great fit in a West Coast offense. Can catch, run in- and outside, can block.

I know this won't end up being popular, but we have a line with potential and even some depth.

Webb - Draft - EWill - Louis - Carimi
and still have Gaza for some snaps, Brown with potential and a guy like Scott can come back who would be solid enough.


Edit: I know it sucks to stay patient and hope for the best ;-)

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Well I think you're right about the lack of popularity regarding that line but you may not be all that far off in terms of how it may come out once the dust settles. No matter what we'd like to see it's possible that we may come away from FA and the draft with no more than one new starter for that line. Other improvements may need to come from within based on Kromers ability to develop better blocking schemes and get these guys playing to their potential. Here's some of the obstacles facing us at each position.

OC - I just posted an article on the OCs available in FA and the cupboard is pretty bare. The best prospect might be the guy Kromer made a player out of in NOLA but he's a RFA and unlikely to be on the market. Jones is the only college prospect worthy of a high pick and his Lis Franc injury makes his readiness to start in 2013 somewhat questionable right now. After him the others are mid round picks who may need a year or two of seasoning before they're ready. So we may well be looking at Garza at OC for another year if EWill isn't the guy who's likely to take over for him.

LT - Let's start with the fact that drafting a rookie starter at LT with the #20 pick just isn't very likely to happen and get that out of the way as an assumption right off the bat. I would like to think that Bushrod would be both an upgrade over Webb and available but at least one article I posted yesterday poses some questions as to whether or not he's really all that much better than Webb as a pass blocker. In that regard his stats are somewhat questionable. I think it's unlikely the Giants will let Beatty walk, Long will be more expensive than our budget would seem to allow and probably not worth that kind of money, and whether or not Albert is allowed to get to FA kind of depends on what KC plans to do in the draft. Webb's 2013 salary as a starter is just $1.3 mil and it's pretty likely that any FA will cost us at least $6 mil or more per year so Emery and the coaching staff need to decide whether or not we can get enough more out of any of those guys to be worth the added expense. The budget is tight.

So this is one of those calls that's probably being evaluated right now. Is there any better option than Webb available that's both affordable and gives us some reasonable assurance of getting far better performance from a LT than Webb can offer. The move to a WCO style offense with it's quicker throws and Kromer's ability to get great play from his line says there's a chance we decide to wing it with Webb for one more year while we search for a better prospect for the long term in the draft or maybe with James Brown. Like it or not this may be the way it works out.

RT - I have to feel like Carimi will be a much better player next year once he's had an entire offseason to rebuild his football strength and benefit from Kromer's coaching. He was just too good of a college player to continue to play as poorly as he did last year. It was pretty plain that his injury caused all kinds of issues with his pass blocking technique and that led to an erosion in his confidence as the season progressed. I think we'll see a major improvement in him next year. I don't know whether or not they'll offer Scott a deal or if they do whether or not he'll play for what he did in 2012. I think he may go elsewhere and if so the Bears may want to think about taking an OT in the second round this year. Maybe a kid like Kyle Long would be a good pick as a hedge against Carimi's continuing to struggle. I think he's a very similar type OT.

OG - For my money this is the spot the Bears should fill in the first round if at all possible. Even if Louis does return to RG at full strength LG is still wide open and if Warmack was still on the board he'd be a target or maybe Cooper an even better pick for our purposes. As it stands NFP has Warmack ranged #6 overall and Cooper #17 and given the fact that OGs often fall ten spots or more below their overall ranking (De Castro fell about 16-18 spots last year) I think it's highly unlikely that both will be drafted before the #20 pick so it seems to me like Cooper should still be there and quite likely our best and safest pick at that spot.

So your forecast for that line may not be all that far off GBPH. Plus Cooper in at LG and possibly Garza stays as the starter at OC and there's at least a 50/50 chance that's the way they line up on opening day. As much as we'd like to see at least two new faces on that line it may not break that way and at least for this year we'll need to look to Kromer to make the needed improvements with most of who we already have.

Absolutely not. We would have to upgrade at another position the way we did with WR this past year to come close to justifying such actions. Just a bad, bad idea.

Not good enough to win a Superbowl.

I'm hoping the coaching change does not produce a 'status quo' like line-up like that, but you also have to factor in a coaches' mentality of "I'll be able to fix that." Hopefully though the new coaches mean a wide up battle for all five positions during OTAs and Training Camp.

I agree with the majority that finding an adequate OG during the draft is more likely than an OT at the 20th spot. But I definitely would like to see a veteran OT brought in via FA to challenge Scott, Webb and Carimi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soulman

Well I think you're right about the lack of popularity regarding that line but you may not be all that far off in terms of how it may come out once the dust settles. No matter what we'd like to see it's possible that we may come away from FA and the draft with no more than one new starter for that line. Other improvements may need to come from within based on Kromers ability to develop better blocking schemes and get these guys playing to their potential. Here's some of the obstacles facing us at each position.

OC - I just posted an article on the OCs available in FA and the cupboard is pretty bare. The best prospect might be the guy Kromer made a player out of in NOLA but he's a RFA and unlikely to be on the market. Jones is the only college prospect worthy of a high pick and his Lis Franc injury makes his readiness to start in 2013 somewhat questionable right now. After him the others are mid round picks who may need a year or two of seasoning before they're ready. So we may well be looking at Garza at OC for another year if EWill isn't the guy who's likely to take over for him.

LT - Let's start with the fact that drafting a rookie starter at LT with the #20 pick just isn't very likely to happen and get that out of the way as an assumption right off the bat. I would like to think that Bushrod would be both an upgrade over Webb and available but at least one article I posted yesterday poses some questions as to whether or not he's really all that much better than Webb as a pass blocker. In that regard his stats are somewhat questionable. I think it's unlikely the Giants will let Beatty walk, Long will be more expensive than our budget would seem to allow and probably not worth that kind of money, and whether or not Albert is allowed to get to FA kind of depends on what KC plans to do in the draft. Webb's 2013 salary as a starter is just $1.3 mil and it's pretty likely that any FA will cost us at least $6 mil or more per year so Emery and the coaching staff need to decide whether or not we can get enough more out of any of those guys to be worth the added expense. The budget is tight.

So this is one of those calls that's probably being evaluated right now. Is there any better option than Webb available that's both affordable and gives us some reasonable assurance of getting far better performance from a LT than Webb can offer. The move to a WCO style offense with it's quicker throws and Kromer's ability to get great play from his line says there's a chance we decide to wing it with Webb for one more year while we search for a better prospect for the long term in the draft or maybe with James Brown. Like it or not this may be the way it works out.

RT - I have to feel like Carimi will be a much better player next year once he's had an entire offseason to rebuild his football strength and benefit from Kromer's coaching. He was just too good of a college player to continue to play as poorly as he did last year. It was pretty plain that his injury caused all kinds of issues with his pass blocking technique and that led to an erosion in his confidence as the season progressed. I think we'll see a major improvement in him next year. I don't know whether or not they'll offer Scott a deal or if they do whether or not he'll play for what he did in 2012. I think he may go elsewhere and if so the Bears may want to think about taking an OT in the second round this year. Maybe a kid like Kyle Long would be a good pick as a hedge against Carimi's continuing to struggle. I think he's a very similar type OT.

OG - For my money this is the spot the Bears should fill in the first round if at all possible. Even if Louis does return to RG at full strength LG is still wide open and if Warmack was still on the board he'd be a target or maybe Cooper an even better pick for our purposes. As it stands NFP has Warmack ranged #6 overall and Cooper #17 and given the fact that OGs often fall ten spots or more below their overall ranking (De Castro fell about 16-18 spots last year) I think it's highly unlikely that both will be drafted before the #20 pick so it seems to me like Cooper should still be there and quite likely our best and safest pick at that spot.

So your forecast for that line may not be all that far off GBPH. Plus Cooper in at LG and possibly Garza stays as the starter at OC and there's at least a 50/50 chance that's the way they line up on opening day. As much as we'd like to see at least two new faces on that line it may not break that way and at least for this year we'll need to look to Kromer to make the needed improvements with most of who we already have.

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The reality is that if a Starting Caliber OG is available in the first round then it would be hard to pass

If this new regime of Emery/Trestman, fails to significantly upgrade the offensive line THIS year, then:

Emery/Trestman = Angelo/Lovie = Fail

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GermansbombedPH

Maybe they just need better coaching and (needed) more time?
Maybe a scheme change helps us too? Trestmans a West Coast Offense guy and getting rid of the ball faster would help the line too. Every now and then, Cutler will be able to throw a deep ball and if he's covered we may use Forte more? Forte seems to be a great fit in a West Coast offense. Can catch, run in- and outside, can block.

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People have made note that the Als went from 68 to 22 sacks when Trestman arrived utilizing the same O-line. I think the key here was the emphasis on the quick release and the timing routes that has the o-line holding up the pass rush for only 2 seconds. If he gets that working, that'll do wonders for pass protection. This works even better when operating out of the Shotgun or Pistol formations. It didn't hurt that he had one of the best pass defence readers in the game, at QB

My concern however is how well do you think the O-line can adapt to Trestman's tendency of sending a couple of linemen 10, 20 or more yards downfield blocking in front of the receiver, on hitches and screens?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billatter

People have made note that the Als went from 68 to 22 sacks when Trestman arrived utilizing the same O-line. I think the key here was the emphasis on the quick release and the timing routes that has the o-line holding up the pass rush for only 2 seconds. If he gets that working, that'll do wonders for pass protection. This works even better when operating out of the Shotgun or Pistol formations. It didn't hurt that he had one of the best pass defence readers in the game, at QB

My concern however is how well do you think the O-line can adapt to Trestman's tendency of sending a couple of linemen 10, 20 or more yards downfield blocking in front of the receiver, on hitches and screens?

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I understand what you're saying.

Here's the problem. You do need an OL who can block. Not just for passing but for running too. And having Cutler chuck the ball away in 2 seconds may be fine sometimes, but ultimately you need the option of letting longer plays develop.

There is a history here with failed olines. Bears fans have heard the hype before, regarding the oline. Mike Tice was touted as a genius with offensive lines. He was supposed to be able to make great olinemen out of low round draft picks and UFA's. Anyone. He had the mojo. We believed he could reach into any toilet and sprinkle any turd with pixie dust & it would magically become a great offensive linemen.

Really.

But all he pulled out were smelly, stinky disgusting players, who propagated our annual oline woes, year after year. At some point, you need to invest in rock-solid player talent if you expect the results to be a rock solid offensive line. There is no magic here. I don't believe in pixie dust and fairies. I'm tired of pulling players out of the toilet. They stink.

Good Coaching + Solid Player Talent = Great Offensive Line. Period.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Good Coaching + Solid Player Talent = Great Offensive Line. Period.

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Couldn't agree more, but I have a question, since my Bears knowledge is thin. In the Lovie years, were the Bears basically running a vanilla, predictable offence? If so, that puts a huge onus on the O-line as the D alway knows what is coming. If the O-line talent is on the thin side, they'll crumble. What I'm trying to say, is that with a less predictable, more complex offence, the D can't simply tee off anymore, which gives average talent on the O-line a chance to do a decent job. On the flip side, the O-line has more to learn and will have to become more versatile. That may prove to be the achillies heel here, hence my question about the downfield blocking.