Free Agency Preview: Centers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weneedmorelinemen

I respect your opinion, JABF, but what about Garza at center is pure crap? His 2011 season was remarkably decent for having not played it in forever. His last year the whole line struggled at short yardage up the middle but I blame our guard situation for that. Always have, which is why I don't want him back at guard. He had a kind of season last year I would have expected from him in 2011 for stupid penalty crap, and his sacks for a center was higher than I like. But he's durable and a leader. I don't need to see him back at RG if Louis is healthy or LG where he struggled at in 2010. I want a real LG like I have been pining for awhile.

I'm hopeful our new OC does not do like Tice and just bring back blocking sleds and remove the box step and call it a day. Tice failed to evaluate our current roster. If they say goodbye to Garza because he is expensive or for an upgrade, that's great. We need every position upgraded, and he's not a long term solution anymore. But man, I look at our line and think we need a new body everywhere. I'm not even high on Louis because he never can finish out a season healthy. I could easily see us sticking with Garza at C and Kromer focusing on the guards and tackles. He managed to make a guy in De La Puenta into a viable starter, but I think that's in part because he played in between Nicks 2011/ Grubbs 2012 and Evans. Hell, I'd look great beside those two.

---

I definitely see your point.

Garza wasn't our worst issue in 2011. But he sure looked bad to me - both on run blocking and pass protection. Maybe part of this was due to bad people on either side of him, I don't honestly know. This past season he looked really really bad to me. But that's just "me" and I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer :smile:

Could we get by with Garza another season? I guess we can if we have to. But at some point I figure we either fix the offensive line - or we don't. And if we don't, then we are not going to see anything out of Emery/Trestman that we didn't see under Angelo/Lovie. Just another failed season. No playoffs. Looking up at the backside of the Vikings and Packers.

That's just "me" and it may be off base. I'm just tired of the poor OL's ruining our offenses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

I don't think carimi will stink it up next year, and if he does I think Brown can step in for him(at LG).

C might well be a problem area, I'm hardly going to say it isnt. I'm just stunned that no one talks about E Williams at all. No one talks about him as a replacement or a waste, it's complete silence.

We need depth no doubt, But I think an FA LT and Scott leave us w/solid T's(depending on who we get in FA for LT), I think Louis/Carimi/Brown make up solid G's), and if Webb has improved I hope he's quality backup for the T position. That really leaves C and depth as the only issue. And I don't see the need to take round 1 and round 2 in OL IF that's the case; not when we need an MLB and probably DB help.

---

Heres what we have IMHO.

EWill: lol at those who say OC isn't a priority or worthy of maybe a high pick. This guy is a half-decent BACKUP only. Expect little and you won't be disappointed.

Garza: see above. Sucky starting C in the twilight of his career. Keep him one more year to mentor a successor and provide vet depth at G (which is his better position)

Rachal: head case, bye

Spencer: blows, bye

Brown: raw but has a chance to become something

Webb: improved enough to worth keeping around cheap another year, mediocre LT

Scott: probably not worth keeping except for the fact that Carimi has pretty much wasted the first two years of his career at RT due to injury

Carimi: needs to bounce back strong this year or the "bust" label will be attached to him permanently

Louis: was looking like Tice's only success till the injury, plan on him playing RG but need a contingency in case there's a lingering medical issue

Bottom line is that we have no competent, plausible player to start at either OC or LG right now. And we have question marks at all 3 other spots too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPBears68

Heres what we have IMHO.

EWill: lol at those who say OC isn't a priority or worthy of maybe a high pick. This guy is a half-decent BACKUP only. Expect little and you won't be disappointed.

Garza: see above. Sucky starting C in the twilight of his career. Keep him one more year to mentor a successor and provide vet depth at G (which is his better position)

Rachal: head case, bye

Spencer: blows, bye

Brown: raw but has a chance to become something

Webb: improved enough to worth keeping around cheap another year, mediocre LT

Scott: probably not worth keeping except for the fact that Carimi has pretty much wasted the first two years of his career at RT due to injury

Carimi: needs to bounce back strong this year or the "bust" label will be attached to him permanently

Louis: was looking like Tice's only success till the injury, plan on him playing RG but need a contingency in case there's a lingering medical issue

Bottom line is that we have no competent, plausible player to start at either OC or LG right now. And we have question marks at all 3 other spots too.

---

This ^^^^^^

That is exactly how I view it. Exactly. Very concise and accurate evaluation of where we are at right now IMHO.

Ewill, hard to say what he is, since no one has ever seen him; but lets just say he's a backup.
Garza/Rachal Agreed
Brown/Carimi both showed a lot of potential at G
Webb, backup quality T
Scott I disagree w/I thought the line really solidified once he was at T, it allowed the O to help Webb far more often then when Carimi was here and needed help also.
Louis agreed. But again you have Brown/Carimi at LG/backup to help solidify that.

The needs are C and LT, not getting lt in the draft so you need one in FA. That leaves C in the draft, and you have a backup. I'd actually say that the backup depth is pretty good at every position in all honesty. It's getting the LT and C that is a real issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Ewill, hard to say what he is, since no one has ever seen him; but lets just say he's a backup.
Garza/Rachal Agreed
Brown/Carimi both showed a lot of potential at G
Webb, backup quality T
Scott I disagree w/I thought the line really solidified once he was at T, it allowed the O to help Webb far more often then when Carimi was here and needed help also.
Louis agreed. But again you have Brown/Carimi at LG/backup to help solidify that.

The needs are C and LT, not getting lt in the draft so you need one in FA. That leaves C in the draft, and you have a backup. I'd actually say that the backup depth is pretty good at every position in all honesty. It's getting the LT and C that is a real issue.

---

In my mind, Webb (now that he's improved a bit) and Garza are basically the same thing quality-wise...mediocre starters who COULD start another year but you really would prefer for that not to be necessary. The big differences are that Webb is cheap, he's in a hard-to-upgrade position, and he's young enough that he may have more upside ahead with Kromer's coaching.

Ideally, I'd like both of them pushed down the depth chart this year into backup roles but I'm realistic enough to know that probably won't happen. If KC hangs onto Albert we are probably going to be stuck with Webb at LT again (is Bushrod that much better than Webb to justify millions in extra expense? I dunno). If that's the case, I would hope we really focus on upgrading the interior in the draft. BOTH C & LG.

I know we can't fix everything in one offseason, but getting the inside better this year should be very doable.

MP you and I agree, it's just a matter of what it takes to make it better. I only see a need for 1 early draft on the OL to make the interior better, and that's at C. I think the Guards are fine. I have no issues going into next year w/Carimi and Brown as the LG/backup G and Louis going RG. Again FA LT and Scott allows Webb to be a backup T which means 1 rookie in the early rounds cuts it.

Remeber we still need, even w/a FA TE, a TE drafted(last year was an H-Back, he lacks the size to play TE), a MLB(regardless of BU resigning or bringing in a FA MLB), a DB(we're not getting everyone back), and probably some DE help also, and a fast WR...that's minimum, I'm still a firm believer in drafting a young developmental qb instead of wasting precious cap on a shitty failed Vet. All in All, that is way more picks then the Bears have, and that's w/out 2 OL. And it's not like we have 50-60 mil to spend in FA either, 18 mil w/who we have to resign and getting a TE/LT will probably be spent before everything we need is filled.

I'm all for a strong OL, I just don't know that there is a need to be over the top about it w/what we already have. We have 3 usable G's right now, and some are talking about adding another. I just don't see the point. Maybe Trestman is different but I think the team has only carried 8 OL traditionally, 3 T's, 3 G's, and 2 C's.

I think the guard situation is terrible. Brown is raw. Louis is an injury risk. Carimi should be preparing for a run at RT. I'd hate to think we spent a 1st rounder on a backup guard without finding out his abilities at RT. We get no push on short yardage situations with any of these guys on the line. And I certainly do not want to see Garza brought back to guard.

The way I see it, since this thread is about centers and I am going to wrong direction, is the only way I want to see Garza brought back is to start at center. I keep seeing the sentiment that his best and more natural position is guard. I don't understand that. It's like we have forgotten his most recent play. He's okay at guard, but he never sniffed the Pro Bowl even as an alternate at guard. We bring Garza back to guard, I hope you like to see more short yardage failure because that's what we will have.

Garza is not worth keeping as a backup, moneywise or playwise. He's just not good at LG, and that's what we have the need at is LG. He's just not worth his cap as a backup C/ RG. Granted I am skeptical of Louis actually completing 16 games at RG, but that's how I see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

What is the deal w/E Williams, the guy has been backing up Garza for a while now, why isn't he being talked about as a possibility?

---

I think he is being seen as a possibility but he's been around for a while and he hasn't been able to win a starting spot on a sketchy line in four years. Terrance Metcalf the 2nd maybe? A career sub and practice player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I think it's because he's probably just another bum on the roster. If he was good he would be playing now. We have a lot of crap players now. Heck, our starters are crappy enough. Just imagine what this says about our scrubs.

It's enough to make a person cry in his beer.

---

Never waste a good beer on this. Having won a weekend date with Kate Upton and coming down with appendicitis on Friday morning now that's something to cry over but the OLine......nah. :lol-032:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weneedmorelinemen

I think the guard situation is terrible. Brown is raw. Louis is an injury risk. Carimi should be preparing for a run at RT. I'd hate to think we spent a 1st rounder on a backup guard without finding out his abilities at RT. We get no push on short yardage situations with any of these guys on the line. And I certainly do not want to see Garza brought back to guard.

The way I see it, since this thread is about centers and I am going to wrong direction, is the only way I want to see Garza brought back is to start at center. I keep seeing the sentiment that his best and more natural position is guard. I don't understand that. It's like we have forgotten his most recent play. He's okay at guard, but he never sniffed the Pro Bowl even as an alternate at guard. We bring Garza back to guard, I hope you like to see more short yardage failure because that's what we will have.

Garza is not worth keeping as a backup, moneywise or playwise. He's just not good at LG, and that's what we have the need at is LG. He's just not worth his cap as a backup C/ RG. Granted I am skeptical of Louis actually completing 16 games at RG, but that's how I see it.

---

Every player their first few years is raw, doesn't mean they cannot play, he looked solid the last few weeks, and he was playing along side Webb and Garza. imagine a real LT and C next to the kid to help him along. Not sure I would say Louis is an injury risk, he was injured that doesn't mean he will be again. Carimi could well beat out Brown for LG, which would mean you spent a 1st on a LG, which is what people are talking about now...doesn't sound so bad does it? And then you have a UDFA as your backup swing G, which is a solid steal if Louis is a "injury risk". Scott looked fine at RT, I don't see a reason not to let him stay.


Again LT/C are the two big issues. one is going to be handled in FA.