Thread: OLINE: "Syracuse's Justin Pugh blazes a new trail at Senior Bowl"

Originally Posted by Grizzblue

I see where your comming from but I believe jones grade is skewed by his position. IF we get to pro days and cooper is looking a notch better by all means jump on him at 20 but I'm not sold on that yet

That being said
1.cooper
2. Frederick

And we're back to the scenario where I am buying shots until I fall off the barstool...

Grizz a guys ranking may get skewed by his position but not his grade and guys are drafted ahead of and later than their ranking all the time. Lane Johnson grades out below both Jones and Fluker but he'll go long before either of them because he projects as a LT. He's this year Nate Solder.

It's not a perfect system I agree but they're graded on how well they are expected to fit and play in the position they are projected to play in the NFL. That how NFP approaches it. If a guy was a LT in college but projected as a RT in the pros they'll grade him as a RT. Team needs bump these guys all over the place.

All I have to go by is now so this is a pre-Combine deal and that's what I'm basing my thoughts on. That and simple logic. Warmack carries an 8.4 grade and is ranked 6th overall or just about where DeCastro was last year. Cooper grades an 8.0 and is ranked as the 17th best player overall. Barrett Jones grades at 7.5 and is ranked as the 52nd best player overall. And keep in mind that Jones and Warmack played on the same line and still Warmack out graded him by almost a full point.

If we got Warmack at #20 we got one hell of a deal. If it's Cooper we got almost perfect value for the pick but if we took Jones at #20 we reached way above his ranking. Now having said that we both know that Jones won't be the 52nd player drafted because there are no UFA OCs worth signing so anybody who needs and OC bad will take him which actually means he could go anywhere from maybe as low as #15 to as high as #40. Worst case I don't he lasts even ten picks into round two if that long unless his injury is more serious than we think it is.

Now let's look at our needs. Garza wasn't that good but he was far from the worst and we have a younger UDFA of our own backing him. Kromer built a very good OC in NOLA out of a guy with no more pedigree than that and some of the best OCs the Bears have ever had were UDFAs and mid round picks. I'll grant you that Jones is an exceptional OC but drafting him and then playing him at LG for a year makes zero sense to me when you can draft a better player who does play LG.

The overall worst grades on our OL last year came from the committee we have playing LG. Collectively they played far worse than CWill had the year before. Great move Mike Tice. Move your starter, then release him and replace him with a whole bunch of slugs who couldn't get the job done even half as well. They didn't run block well and they didn't pass block well. At least CWill has done a good job run blocking in 2011 but Tice never liked the guy so he set him up to fail like he always has. OK, ancient history.

So if the position that's causing us the absolute most grief on that line isn't LT as many think but actually LG where should we spend our pick if one of those two or both of those two LGs are on the board? Surely not on an OC and then play him at LG. We've been doing that shit for years and I think it only makes matter worse. If Emery and the coaches think we need a LG than draft a fucking LG and that decision is even easier to make when he grades out better. If Jones were graded as a LG would he even grade out at 7.5? probably not because even though he's played it that's not his true position.

So that's my rationale.

Originally Posted by soulman

Grizz a guys ranking may get skewed by his position but not his grade and guys are drafted ahead of and later than their ranking all the time. Lane Johnson grades out below both Jones and Fluker but he'll go long before either of them because he projects as a LT. He's this year Nate Solder.

It's not a perfect system I agree but they're graded on how well they are expected to fit and play in the position they are projected to play in the NFL. That how NFP approaches it. If a guy was a LT in college but projected as a RT in the pros they'll grade him as a RT. Team needs bump these guys all over the place.

All I have to go by is now so this is a pre-Combine deal and that's what I'm basing my thoughts on. That and simple logic. Warmack carries an 8.4 grade and is ranked 6th overall or just about where DeCastro was last year. Cooper grades an 8.0 and is ranked as the 17th best player overall. Barrett Jones grades at 7.5 and is ranked as the 52nd best player overall. And keep in mind that Jones and Warmack played on the same line and still Warmack out graded him by almost a full point.

If we got Warmack at #20 we got one hell of a deal. If it's Cooper we got almost perfect value for the pick but if we took Jones at #20 we reached way above his ranking. Now having said that we both know that Jones won't be the 52nd player drafted because there are no UFA OCs worth signing so anybody who needs and OC bad will take him which actually means he could go anywhere from maybe as low as #15 to as high as #40. Worst case I don't he lasts even ten picks into round two if that long unless his injury is more serious than we think it is.

Now let's look at our needs. Garza wasn't that good but he was far from the worst and we have a younger UDFA of our own backing him. Kromer built a very good OC in NOLA out of a guy with no more pedigree than that and some of the best OCs the Bears have ever had were UDFAs and mid round picks. I'll grant you that Jones is an exceptional OC but drafting him and then playing him at LG for a year makes zero sense to me when you can draft a better player who does play LG.

The overall worst grades on our OL last year came from the committee we have playing LG. Collectively they played far worse than CWill had the year before. Great move Mike Tice. Move your starter, then release him and replace him with a whole bunch of slugs who couldn't get the job done even half as well. They didn't run block well and they didn't pass block well. At least CWill has done a good job run blocking in 2011 but Tice never liked the guy so he set him up to fail like he always has. OK, ancient history.

So if the position that's causing us the absolute most grief on that line isn't LT as many think but actually LG where should we spend our pick if one of those two or both of those two LGs are on the board? Surely not on an OC and then play him at LG. We've been doing that shit for years and I think it only makes matter worse. If Emery and the coaches think we need a LG than draft a fucking LG and that decision is even easier to make when he grades out better. If Jones were graded as a LG would he even grade out at 7.5? probably not because even though he's played it that's not his true position.

So that's my rationale.

That seems to make a lot of good sense.

Regarding the earlier post on Angelo trading down and then missing on draftees, I would just add that he missed on his 1st round picks too. But, I get your point and agree with you Soul.

When I read these posts about how mismanaged the offense was, it occurs to me that nobody could screw things up as bad as our GM/HC/and Tice. It's like you couldn't do worse even if you intentionally TRIED to screw up the team. I'm not trying to be funny here. I'm dead serious. We would have been better last year if they had duct taped Tice's mouth, tied him up and threw him into the Halas Hall cellar. Moving players around like he did was madness.

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Brown and Carimi both have potential at LG. LG is the least of concerns on this team. LT and C are both concerns though. If one is taken care of in FA it greatly reduces the need to focus entirely on OL early in the draft.

The only problem I have with that is the fact we've heard the "potential" word thrown around during the entire Jerry Angelo & Lovie Smith era. We're always all goosebumps about how much "potential" players have. It's a rite of spring. Every year. The Cubs do the same thing every year (I'm a Cubs fan too).

Usually this doesn't pan out. And we're all hopping mad once the real season begins and we see more crap play by the offensive line. It's just as predictable as those pesky dandelions that will be coming up in my yard soon.

I'd be thrilled to see them draft OL in the first two rounds. Or 1st and 4th round. Then, if we DO get pleasantly surprised and one of those "potential" guys actually does pan out, then fine. The oline will be even THAT much better this year.

I will though, have an aneurysm if they trot out yet another failed oline this year. I'm so tired of it.

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

JABF, color me stunned if they go OL/OL in rounds 1 and 2 when they need to find a guy to replace Urlacher(even if they resign him) and need some DB help/depth, and depth at WR, backup QB, and DL depth.

I'm all for them getting a top 5 OL, but you're not doing it in one draft. To much youth can be an issue also, even if there is talent. If you went and got 2 OL that would be 4 guys on the OL sub 2 years experience(carimi was hurt his first year), brown and 2 more rookies. That is out of probably 9 guys(figuring Scott/Webb and FA LT and Louis). And 3 of them are probably starting, and all 5 are going to be substanial time.


I just don't see a scenerio(minus a guy falling to them that is must have) going OL round 1 and 2. I won't hate it, but I just cannot see it. There are ton's of needs, and you can get quality G's in the mid rounds.

You may be right. And it may be a situation where they draft OL in 2nd and 4th, or something else. I'm just saying that I personally would be thrilled to see that one-two punch, of drafting OL in both rounds. But it probably won't happen with other needs that we have. And as we've talked about, there is also the FA part to this. There are a couple of ways they could use FA to help (and I'm assuming that they will, in fact, use this option in addition to the draft).

I'm biased. But you guys all know that