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Originally Posted by
GermansbombedPH 
Clady will get the Tag
Albert will stay in KC
Bushrod with the money he will get <<< Webb for his money
Long is the big price and a team will throw more money on him than we can offer
The only realistic vet OT out there is Sebastian Vollmer. He's a RT but played LT for little time. Keep Webb and his salary and sign Vollmer. That would solve lot's of our problems. Right side would be rock solid with Vollmer and Louis. Let Carimi battle it out with Webb or use him as Guard or SwingOT.
objectivly, we are stuck with Webb and hope he will improve again.
Bad plan. Carimi can't pass block yet at RT and he not an OG type either. You put Carimi at LT right now and he'll make Webb look like an All Pro.
No I would not spend money on Vollmer either. He's not a true LT so we gain nothing were we need it and why do we want our prize rookie OT who has a guaranteed contract competing with another FA we'll have to guarantee even more money too. We might just as well resign Scott if that's what we want.
If you you're gonna have him compete with somebody then let it be Webb who comes cheap and find a LT. We'd be paying Vollmer more than we pay Carimi and Webb combined and we'd still have a problem at LT and no depth.
If we can't bring in LT help in FA then I think we look at Brown and maybe a draftee as developmental guys behind Webb. If we can get away with it I'd look for Corey Brandon to back up Carimi at RT and part ways with Scott but if all we want is a guy whose played some LT as a swing guy then we might as well keep Scott around. He'll be far cheaper than Vollmer.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. 
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Originally Posted by
4DaBERS ...and they are on crack.
Nope. Not based in their 2013 seasons. Bushrod allowed more pressures than Webb and he plays on a much better line with a Pro Bowl OG next to him and a QB who gets rid of the ball much quicker than Cutler. Webb played next to our "musical chairs" LG spot last year. Kromer has also been coaching Bushrod for four years vs zero for Webb. Believe it or not I'll stick with Webb for another year vs Bushrod to see what Kromer can do with him.
I thought Bushrod might be a good target too until I began to look more into his stats and he's really about the same as Webb is now but without the upside. The B/R LT review of the top 35 LTs had Webb at #28 and Bushrod at #25. We aren't gaining anything and I wouldn't pay him $5-$6 mil per year or more vs the $1.3 Webb makes this year.
He's not our guy. We should look beyond him and hope that NY lets Beatty hit FA. Much better all round OT who's coming of his rookie contract so he hasn't already been making $5 mil a year and Beatty has upside. Based on the list of who may be available right now he's the guy I'd target if NY doesn'r get him signed.
Last edited by soulman; 02-17-2013 at 06:28 AM.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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High Fives / Like - 1 BEAR DOWN!, 0 Dislikes
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Originally Posted by
soulman Nope. Not based in their 2013 seasons. Bushrod allowed more pressures than Webb and he plays on a much better line with a Pro Bowl OG next to him and a QB who gets rid of the ball much quicker than Cutler. Webb played next to our "musical chairs" LG spot last year. Kromer has also been coaching Bushrod for four years vs zero for Webb. Believe it or not I'll stick with Webb for another year vs Bushrod to see what Kromer can do with him.
I thought Bushrod might be a good target too until I began to look more into his stats and he's really about the same as Webb is now but without the upside. The B/R LT review of the top 35 LTs had Webb at #28 and Bushrod at #25. We aren't gaining anything and I wouldn't pay him $5-$6 mil per year or more vs the $1.3 Webb makes this year.
If Bushrod really isn't that great, why did he make it to the Pro Bowl for two consecutive seasons and Webb didn't? I'm a little confused here. 
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Originally Posted by
little bear If Bushrod really isn't that great, why did he make it to the Pro Bowl for two consecutive seasons and Webb didn't? I'm a little confused here.
Soul touched on part of this. Bushrod played in a stellar system. An offensive line is more like 1 player with 5 moving parts. New Orleans had Bushrod playing with one of the best OL's in the NFL. He also was playing for one of the best OL coaches in the NFL. He played in a great blocking scheme. He played for an offensive coordinator and head coach who were solid.
Webb?
Webb played on one of the worst OL's in the NFL. Often, he lined up next to a "new guy" at LG. As Soul said, it was musical OL guys each week. We had a horrendous blocking scheme. We had lunatic offensive coordinators. Play calling was inept. Our head coach didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground when it came to an OL or an offense.
I don't think I've ever, in 50+ years of watching the Bears, seen such an inept train wreck.
So, I'm not saying Webb is good or bad. I'm just saying that maybe those scouts who rate Webb higher than Bushrod "see" something in the guy that we don't. I've always like Scouts Inc. for their scouting reports. They have Webb rated one point higher than Bushrod. Maybe they're wrong, and the could be, but that tells me there isn't a huge difference between the two.
Brian Urlacher
Thanks For The Memories
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Originally Posted by
JustAnotherBearsFan99 I struggle to be objective about Webb. He made me crazy angry many times over the past couple of years. But I do agree with everything you said regarding Webb.
I think Webb was one of the most raw/undeveloped players I've seen on a Bears roster. On top of all that, he was very young and immature. Not a bad kid, but it was like having a high school kid on the Bears roster. Letting a raw talent like Webb start was crazy IMHO. Letting him continue to get starting game reps for those years was crazy & painful to watch. It was a HUGE investment, and I wouldn't have done it.
I believe the reason the Bears did all of this, is that they truly felt Webb could be a really solid LT in the NFL - and the end result would be worth the pain. I'm not saying it was worth it. But if he is playing at the level that the scouts are saying, then we may NOW be in position to enjoy getting something OUT of the guy, in return for enduring his "on the job training" as our starting tackle.
We may begin to get solid dividends from the investment.
It would be just like the Bears to dump the kid, after years of painful development - and see him become one of the better LT's in the NFL - for another team.
One of the things that negatively affected my perception of Webb was the overly optimistic CROWLS posts proclaiming his dominance and awesomeness. It's hard not to argue with someone about Webb's obvious terrible level of play and not develop a negative opinion about him.
Since the demise of the CBMB, and Webb's name not being said very often that last half of the 2012 season, I look at him a little differently. I knew he was not ready when we stuck him in at RT in 2010. It was a stupid stubborn decision by Tice, but evaluating the past three seasons it seems our offensive line woes all seem to stem from a common focal point and that point is poor coaching by Tice with no oversight by Lovie.
JABF, I can remember how you and I both would seriously doubt Tice for some stupid decision he'd made over the years. If he did something good, he'd get a compliment, but then the line would just implode midway through the season and I'd regret saying anything nice about him at all.
I'm optimistic that Kromer knows his stuff, and no more Pixie dust will have to be mentioned this year.
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Originally Posted by
short faced bear So if the LT position is one of THE foundational piece of a O line then the dividends earned should be far GREATER than a vastly helped "75". If the goal is a next level deep playoff run more is both expected and needed. I would ask what position would you "invest" this much time and energy in and haven't seen a benefit? "Just one more year" is such a mantra and why use it on one of the most important positions? There are first round picks that get canned a lot faster than this. It's time to decide once and for all if Webb starts or if he's a ST.
Small incremental improvements are nice but do not take it to the next level. If this "Webb strategy" was used for more players I think many would agree it is no formula for winning football.
My premise with starting this thread was not a lack of desire to improve the LT position but a possible lack of ABILITY to do it this year. No one thinks Webb is a star by any means. But there's no immediate help coming via the draft realistically and the FA market may be either shut down, too expensive, or not worth the cost.
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Originally Posted by
soulman Nope. Not based in their 2013 seasons. Bushrod allowed more pressures than Webb and he plays on a much better line with a Pro Bowl OG next to him and a QB who gets rid of the ball much quicker than Cutler. Webb played next to our "musical chairs" LG spot last year. Kromer has also been coaching Bushrod for four years vs zero for Webb. Believe it or not I'll stick with Webb for another year vs Bushrod to see what Kromer can do with him.
I thought Bushrod might be a good target too until I began to look more into his stats and he's really about the same as Webb is now but without the upside. The B/R LT review of the top 35 LTs had Webb at #28 and Bushrod at #25. We aren't gaining anything and I wouldn't pay him $5-$6 mil per year or more vs the $1.3 Webb makes this year.
He's not our guy. We should look beyond him and hope that NY lets Beatty hit FA. Much better all round OT who's coming of his rookie contract so he hasn't already been making $5 mil a year and Beatty has upside. Based on the list of who may be available right now he's the guy I'd target if NY doesn'r get him signed.
Soul (or anyone), do you have any idea of how likely/unlikely it is for Beatty to reach FA? Any idea of what the NYG cap situation is? What do you think he would cost if he did make it and Emery went after him?
Im asking cuz I simply don't know much about him or the NYG roster...
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Originally Posted by
soulman He's not our guy. We should look beyond him and hope that NY lets Beatty hit FA. Much better all round OT who's coming of his rookie contract so he hasn't already been making $5 mil a year and Beatty has upside. Based on the list of who may be available right now he's the guy I'd target if NY doesn'r get him signed.
I agree on this one. I really want us to upgrade the LT position but I don't wanna see us overpaying a guy that won't bring us any upside.
To be honest I've never heard of Will Beatty before, but the more I read about him the more I like the idea of him wearing a Bears uniform. He's younger than most OT FAs, he's got great size and looks to be a versatile and athletic offensive lineman. Since he's an unrestricted FA he will hit Free Agency, so we definitely do have a chance to sign him. Let's not forget the fact that he would be a lot cheaper than every other top FA.
The only thing that concerns me is his eye injury (detached retina) two years ago. Sounds scary to me.
Will Beatty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Draft
He was drafted with the 28th pick of the second round (#60 overall) by the New York Giants in the 2009 NFL draft. On July 30, 2009, the Giants announced that they had signed Beatty to a 4 year contract worth $2.67 million.
Rookie Season 2009
In his rookie season, Will played in all 16 games. He began the season as a special teams player and situational tight end when the Giants wanted to use an extra blocking tight end. Will started 4 games in his rookie campaign at Right Tackle, replacing the injured Kareem Mackenzie. His first career start came against the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday Night Football on NBC on October 25, 2009. This ended the current streak of 38 consecutive starts by the offensive line unit. Not until the final 3 games of the regular season did Will get the opportunity to start again as Mackenzie went down with another injury. Will started against the Washington Redskins on Monday Night Football on December 21, 2009; the Carolina Panthers on December 27, 2009; and the Minnesota Vikings on January 3, 2010. In all of the final 3 games Will went up against premier defensive ends including Washington's Brian Orakpo, Carolina's Julius Peppers, and Minnesota's Jared Allen. The Giants failed to make the playoffs in 2009 despite winning their first 5 games of the year.
2010 Season
The 2010 offseason had much speculation about WIll becoming the starting left tackle. While all of those rumors flew around Will began the regular season as an extra tight end and special teams contributor. In the first game of the 2010 season, Will suffered a foot injury that would sideline him for 8 weeks. He was able to return in full strength and ended up starting 2 games at Left Tackle for the injured David Diehl. During this season, Will did not give up any sacks. He defines his role with the Giants succinctly: "Keeping Eli clean is my job."
2011 Season
During the lockout of the 2011 offseason, Will gained 19 pounds and reported to camp at 319 pounds. Upon arriving to camp, Will was immediately named the starting Left Tackle with the subsequent releasing of veteran offensive linemen Shaun O'Hara and Rich Seubert. In the first preseason game against rookie Cam Newton and the Carolina Panthers, Will did not give up any sacks. Will gained national media attention in the week following the game for his tough practicing against Jason Pierre-Paul, who had 2 sacks in the Carolina Preseason game and veteran Osi Umenyiora. Will wrote on his Twitter page, "Today I showed a vet, Osi Umenyiora #NYG how much I have grown and prepared this off season. I'm glad to have the opportunity to practice my skill on a great pass rusher in the NFL." The following day he added, "We had open practice today and all I can say is, if you missed practice you missed a good show." This smack-talking was well received by Giants fans who originally thought that Beatty was too soft and mild-mannered to play in the NFL. Will started the first 10 games at Left Tackle for the Giants in 2011.
Detached Retina
On November 23 he discovered that he had a detached retina after playing the Philadelphia Eagles. Will said he could not even see his nose when he looked down. Will had emergency surgery the next day on Thanksgiving Day in New York City to fix the issue. He missed the Monday Night Football game (loss) against the New Orleans Saints. While his eye has been 100% fully reattached, he would not be ready for full contact this season. He was placed on the injured reserve on November 30 with the Giants record being 6-5. The Giants went on to win the Super Bowl this season.
Offseason
During the offseason, during a lifting session, William disrupted the sciatic nerve in his back. The nerve injury sidelined Will from OTA's.
2012 Season
While allowing the Sciatic nerve to fully heal, Will was forced to sit out the majority of the pre-season. When he did practice at the University of Albany, he worked with the 1's and 2's, and also took extra reps with Osi Umenyoria.
Since Will had the detached retina the previous season, he was approved for a new helmet, with a shaded visor and a 5 bar facemask. The helmet is in similar style to Chris Canty, and Justin Tuck.
Will was declared "healed" by the medical staff prior to week 1 of the regular season, but in attempt to ease Will back into the flow of the game, the coaching staff used Will as a 3rd TE in their jumbo package against the Cowboys. Veteran tackle Sean Locklear got the start for Will in the season opener. The Giants lost to the Cowboys.
In the second game of the season against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Locklear also got the start over Beatty. Will started the game as the 3rd TE in the jumbo package. In the first half of the game, Eli Manning threw a red zone pass just behind a wide open Will, who missed the catch. Will poked fun at himself on his Twitter page, "I had a moment to show the world how versatile O Line men can be..... Sorry fellows for not finishing the play." He also include a video of the missed catch on his page. Also during the 1st half, RT David Diehl went down with a knee injury. Locklear then moved to RT, and Will moved into the LT spot. Will's run blocking and pass protection were very good. He and the rest of the offensive line worked cohesively to protect Eli Manning while he manufactured a fourth quarter comeback for the ages.
The third game of the season was a Thursday Night game against Cam Newton and the Carolina Panthers. Will started the game at LT. The offensive line blocked extremely well in pass protection and run blocking. 4th year RB Andre Brown, in his first career start, ran for 113 yards and 2 TD's, both behind Will on the left side. This game was arguably Will's finest game as a pro to date.
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Let me ask this question...if we do keep Webb and don't get a big LT FA, who or where would you spend that money?
The gaurd market seems slim as well as centers so I don't really know where we could add value
I like the idea of a slot guy pickup but no one for the right price sticks out to me
Most certainly we can adress TE in that case
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 Soul (or anyone), do you have any idea of how likely/unlikely it is for Beatty to reach FA? Any idea of what the NYG cap situation is? What do you think he would cost if he did make it and Emery went after him?
Im asking cuz I simply don't know much about him or the NYG roster...
According to Paul Schwartz (New York Post) and ESPN the Giants are currently $4.7 million over the projected salary cap. It means the Giants have plenty of work to do in the coming months, especially because they have 22 of their own free agents to consider.
As I said earlier Beatty is an unrestricted Free Agent, means he's free to entertain offers from all other teams and to decide with whom to sign a new contract.
Talking about contracts I think he would cost us $5-8 mil a year which is less than every other top FA. FYI Long will probably look for $10-11 mil a year.
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