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Originally Posted by
WindyCity 
Bushrod actually graded out as a very strong run blocker.
Bushrod is not head and shoulders better than Webb, but he does not have to be to upgrade our line. He has to be head and shoulders better than Carimi/Scott, which he is.
Bushrod is not the type of free agent signing that sends you partying in the streets, like Peppers, he is the type that just makes your team better.
1. He gives you a solid upgrade at LT.
2. He gives you an upgrade at RT as Webb moves over to RT taking some pressure off of Webb.
3. He allows Carimi to stay and work at OG, I just don't think his knee lets him move back outside.
4. He moves John Scott, when re-signed, to the more appropriate swing OT.
5. He allows you to focus on OG in a draft that is stacked at the OG position.
These things are all subtle and they are not as flashy as some other potential OL moves but they are all subtle upgrades to a line that needs improvement at every spot.
I understand the plan and motivation behind getting him. You're right, it doesn't excite me one bit (which is what I'd expect for a headliner move like Marshall was last year--HUGE upgrade), but I'm gonna have faith in it if it happens because of the Kromer connection.
I still envision Carimi as our RT of the future but I admit we have to hedge our bets there that medically he may never get back to where he was.
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 I understand the plan and motivation behind getting him. You're right, it doesn't excite me one bit (which is what I'd expect for a headliner move like Marshall was last year--HUGE upgrade), but I'm gonna have faith in it if it happens because of the Kromer connection.
I still envision Carimi as our RT of the future but I admit we have to hedge our bets there that medically he may never get back to where he was.
Even if you want Carimi at OT I feel much better going into next season with
Bushrod
Carimi
Webb
then
Webb
Carimi
Scott
The 2nd option to me is a huge risk.
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And we need to start accepting that we are going to over pay for an OLmen in free agency. It does not matter if it is Levitre, Bushrod, Moore, or someone lesser. The nature of the free agency beast and the fact that we desperately need OL help is going to force our hand and we will over pay by a couple of million dollars a year.
I am not going to blame Emery because what option does he have if he wants to really evaluate Cutler before making a 100 million dollar ecisoon and take advantage of the last few good years of this defence and make a title run.
I will blame Jerry Angelo because of poor drafting [Williams, Carimi] guys who are suppose to be our starting LT and RT are not on the team and benched. His poor drafting led to the decline of this OL and forcing us to desperately trying to patch holes that he left on the roster.
'Whistle Dixie"
Last edited by WindyCity; 03-10-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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High Fives / Like - 1 BEAR DOWN!, 0 Dislikes
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity Even if you want Carimi at OT I feel much better going into next season with
Bushrod
Carimi
Webb
then
Webb
Carimi
Scott
The 2nd option to me is a huge risk.
I definitely agree with you there. Scott was a desperate stopgap signing last year because we had no 3rd OT. He's easily upgradeable/replaceable so I'd imagine he won't be retained if we sign a FA OT (Bushrod or Winston).
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity Bushrod actually graded out as a very strong run blocker.
Bushrod is not head and shoulders better than Webb, but he does not have to be to upgrade our line. He has to be head and shoulders better than Carimi/Scott, which he is.
Bushrod is not the type of free agent signing that sends you partying in the streets, like Peppers, he is the type that just makes your team better.
1. He gives you a solid upgrade at LT.
2. He gives you an upgrade at RT as Webb moves over to RT taking some pressure off of Webb.
3. He allows Carimi to stay and work at OG, I just don't think his knee lets him move back outside.
4. He moves John Scott, when re-signed, to the more appropriate swing OT.
5. He allows you to focus on OG in a draft that is stacked at the OG position.
These things are all subtle and they are not as flashy as some other potential OL moves but they are all subtle upgrades to a line that needs improvement at every spot.
I agree with you Windy, but change Bushrod to Long and you have the same 5 points you already made
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Originally Posted by
GermansbombedPH I agree with you Windy, but change Bushrod to Long and you have the same 5 points you already made
And 2-3 million more a year and an extensive injury history.
Long would also make me happy if we can afford him and he checks out.
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 I definitely agree with you there. Scott was a desperate stopgap signing last year because we had no 3rd OT. He's easily upgradeable/replaceable so I'd imagine he won't be retained if we sign a FA OT (Bushrod or Winston).
I have nothing against Scott.
But I would like to be strong enough at OT that he is not on the team.
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity And 2-3 million more a year and an extensive injury history.
Long would also make me happy if we can afford him and he checks out.
I understand there's always a cost-benefit tradeoff here like with anything in life. But German was kinda alluding to the same thing I mentioned earlier. Iow, if you are going to spend major coin to upgrade a key position (and we have to as you mentioned thanks to JA), then UPGRADE IT DAMMIT. Don't cheap out by spending 20% less and end up with a half-ass "solution".
If Long checks out (and he reportedly has by Andrews), then GET him. We now have $7 million in cap space instead of only $4 as previously thought. This is doable.
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Junior Member
Here are the 10 most overvalued offensive tackles from 2012:
1. Jake Long, Miami Dolphins
2012 Cap Hit: $12.8m
2012 Performance Based Value: $1.2m
Value Differential: -$11.6
There are plenty of factors that play into Long being our most overvalued offensive tackle of 2012. For starters, he played in just 12 games and was in the final year of a monster contract that he received as a former first-overall draft pick under the old Collective Bargaining Agreement. Beyond that, however, he just wasn’t very good last year. Ranking 46th among all offensive tackles, Long had a particularly poor outing against the Indianapolis Colts, but — as his 95.7 Pass Blocking Efficiency (PBE) Rating suggests — his struggled were year long, preventing him from coming close to that astronomical valuation.
2. Trent Williams, Washingston Redskins
2012 Cap Hit: $14.0m
2012 Performance Based Value: $6.9m
Value Differential: -$7.1m
Another victim of the old CBA, Williams actually had a pretty good season where he ranked 19th among all offensive tackles with a PFF grade of +18.8. Coming out of his best season in the league hopes will be high for Williams, especially with him finishing joint 12th among players at the position with a PBE Rating of 96.1. Still, with that lofty cap hit he would still have had a negative value differential had he been perfect in pass protection and just didn’t represent good value for money through little fault of his own.
3. Jordan Gross, Carolina Panthers
2012 Cap Hit: $11.5m
2012 Performance Based Value: $6.1m
Value Differential: -$5.4m
Like Williams, Gross (+16.3) didn’t grade out poorly in 2012, finishing the regular season as our 20th-rated offensive tackle, but he just wasn’t worth the $11.5 million that Carolina paid him. His 94.7 PBE Rating was tied for 26th among players at his position and, while it would have been difficult for him to justify that cap hit regardless, that’s too much pressure to allow from a left tackle being paid that much.
4. Jermon Bushrod, New Orleans
2012 Cap Hit: $6.9m
2012 Performance Based Value: $2.0m
Value Differential: -$4.9m
Bushrod has come a long way since his first two seasons as a starter in New Orleans where, despite winning a Super Bowl, he at times was little more than a minor speed bump for opposing defensive linemen. His past two seasons, while still a little inconsistent with some poor performances sprinkled in, have been much better. That said, he hasn’t played well enough to justify a contract of nearly $7 million despite the improvement.
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03-10-2013, 02:53 PM #100 Originally Posted by
MPBears68 I understand there's always a cost-benefit tradeoff here like with anything in life. But German was kinda alluding to the same thing I mentioned earlier. Iow, if you are going to spend major coin to upgrade a key position (and we have to as you mentioned thanks to JA), then UPGRADE IT DAMMIT. Don't cheap out by spending 20% less and end up with a half-ass "solution".
If Long checks out (and he reportedly has by Andrews), then GET him. We now have $7 million in cap space instead of only $4 as previously thought. This is doable.
But Bushrod is not a half ass improvement compared to Long.
If Long is a 7/10 then Bushrod is a 6/10.
People are acting like there is a huge difference between the 2 when the truth is that they are both solid, unspectacular LTs.
Albert and Clady are gone.
To me there is only 1 true star OTs left and that is Sebastian Vollmer.
MPBears68 say BEAR DOWN!
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