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Originally Posted by
kevperro 
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein
or if you prefer...
The average human has one breast and one testicle. ~Des McHale
LOL. Stats are only as good as anyone's ability to interpret them and act on them. There are also thousands of ways to compile them, some far more valid than others, and most of them require additional analysis to be of any real use.
It seems in this case they relied more on Kromer's experience with him and his observations than they did a raw statistical comparison. I hope to God he's right. At least Bushrod was in the middle of the pack and he wasn't ever ranked as the worst OT in the NFL two years running and at two different positions. That must count for something doesn't it? 
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. 
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Junior Member
I think PFF is off on this one. So far I have watched his first 10 games of 2012 and he has been really good. I counted 3 sacks (1 where Brees held the ball too long) and about 10 legit pressures. Bushrod has a tendency to push rushers past the pocket which allows Brees to step up and I have a feeling PFF is counting these as disruptions/pressures. But I didn't see anywhere near the amount of pressures they had charted.
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity I will take the advice of the man that has watched every single rep Bushrod has ever played, probably more than once.
I will also take the advice of the man that new every protection call and assignment of those plays.
Aaron Kromer
I will also take the word of the elite QB he protected who lobbied to keep him pretty hard.
Drew Brees
I will also take the opinion if the great coach and Superbowl GM who made Bushrod thief #1 priority to bring back.
Payton and Loomis
Great post. Great points.
Emery seems to examine ALL of the physical evidence, rather than using one source to base decisions on. I love how thoughtful and detailed he is. He reminds me of a brilliant and gifted detective.
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Junior Member
Originally Posted by
ctree5454 I think PFF is off on this one. So far I have watched his first 10 games of 2012 and he has been really good. I counted 3 sacks (1 where Brees held the ball too long) and about 10 legit pressures. Bushrod has a tendency to push rushers past the pocket which allows Brees to step up and I have a feeling PFF is counting these as disruptions/pressures. But I didn't see anywhere near the amount of pressures they had charted.
I don't know any particular reason to trust PFF. Your observations are very interesting. Did you have any guess about how often Bushrod got help from a back/TE chipping? I'm sure you haven't looked at everybody in the league (you may have a day job!) but do you have any feel if he get about average amount of help or less or, like Webb, seemingly more help?
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The way I look at it is this. The stats are the stats. They may not be looking at pressures, etc they way they should but they are probably doing it the same way for everyone. So if the stats show that Bushrod was only slightly ahead of Webb, then I am going to believe it.
However, with Kroner here and film of Webb and Emery's input on Webb, I am deciding that they felt that even though the statistical numbers were close that Bushrod had more upside and did other things better than Webb. Plus there is obviously more at work here than the PFF statistics. I do believe that they measured out close per the stats. Bushrod is close to web on those stats. Bushrod also went to the Probowl twice. Webb was not even in the same galaxy. the only proBowl he could go to is the taco proBowl. So those stats either need to be re-evaluated as to how they paint a real picture of a LT, or there is more going on her.
Or I'm full of shit and they just all really liked his name and wanted to be able to scream "I want Bushrod" during a game.
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I don't care what metric is used. There are some basics, some intangibles, some FOOTBALL IQ, what a guy does in crunch time, and how long it takes for him to be developed. Stats are a factor but it also depends on what philosophy and paradigm one is using.
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win your still messed up.
Restore the roar!
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So I read on another site and someone said that Bushrod gave up 55 pressures, on top of his 6 sacks. Now again lets go back to that 700 attempts, that's about 1 pressure every 13 attempts. To get to 700 attempts that's about 43 passes a game. So that's less then 1 pressure a quarter, and 1 sack every 3 or so games.
Now think about that. 1 pressure a quarter out of about 11 attempts a quarter, and 1 sack ever 6 games. Is ANYONE going to bitch about that? Anyone think that Cutler is going to throw that often to have a 1 in 10 shot of getting pressured every game? He only attempted about 7 a quarter last year. If my math is wrong(and it well could be), please correct me I'm wrong, if Cutler continues to have mid 400 pass attempts you are looking at mi'd 30's in pressures, anyone going to be upset w/that out of the LT position?
Last edited by Riczaj01; 03-15-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01 So I read on another site and someone said that Bushrod gave up 55 pressures, on top of his 6 sacks. Now again lets go back to that 700 attempts, that's about 1 pressure every 13 attempts. To get to 700 attempts that's about 43 passes a game. So that's less then 1 pressure a quarter, and 1 sack every 3 or so games.
Now think about that. 1 pressure a quarter out of about 11 attempts a quarter, and 1 sack ever 6 games. Is ANYONE going to bitch about that? Anyone think that Cutler is going to throw that often to have a 1 in 10 shot of getting pressured every game? He only attempted about 7 a quarter last year. If my math is wrong(and it well could be), please correct me I'm wrong, if Cutler continues to have mid 400 pass attempts you are looking at mi'd 30's in pressures, anyone going to be upset w/that out of the LT position?
Also keep in mind that NO was second to only Detroit in passing attempts last season (NO had 42 attempts per game):
NFL Stats: by Team Category
So yeah...when all you do is pass, your pass protection numbers are going to be slightly worse then your average team.
I'm trying//to let go//of maybe//but maybe's just so//very interesting//Oh, what a thing.
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Originally Posted by
ctree5454 I think PFF is off on this one. So far I have watched his first 10 games of 2012 and he has been really good. I counted 3 sacks (1 where Brees held the ball too long) and about 10 legit pressures. Bushrod has a tendency to push rushers past the pocket which allows Brees to step up and I have a feeling PFF is counting these as disruptions/pressures. But I didn't see anywhere near the amount of pressures they had charted.
Glad someone had the ability to actually watch some video on the guy. That's not a capability I have right now. What you saw and I bold faced is in line with what Emery said they saw. His ability to pick up a speed rusher and redirect him was as good or better than any other FA LT out there. Right there we've improved our situation because that was one of Webb's weaknesses. We may lose a little as far as his run blocking is concerned but since I expect us to be passing more I don't see that as much of an issue.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01 in other words, Emery to PFF, blow me. Your stats are flawed and we found others that we think are more accurate...but thanks for playing.
Funny how he praised them earlier. Now he is saying otherwise.
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