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Originally Posted by
Grizzblue 
T'eo is overrated IMO we saw what happens when he played a future NFL quality oline and halfback, he was getting kicked around by guys who have played at a high level for a whole against the best talent college football had to offer. Meanwhile T'eo was tearing it up against mediocre talent. I attribute alot of his overinflated draft stock to the "notre dame is back" national craze that also proved to be false.
With that said I still don't think he makes it past pit.
Now on to Jones (I'm also assuming Warmack could be gone with a slight possibility he's around, like decastro)
His injury is a bit of a concern I agree (partially why I think maybe Warmack would be a go over him if he's avail) but its not a knee or back and I'm not very concerned that it will reoccur, and he should be good to go come OTAs
Our offensive line is horrendous and without some overhaul it will be WORSE next year. We need 2 replacements MINIMUM. Now LT must be solved in FA so I'm optimistically hoping that is a given somehow, someway.
On to our interior...
It's almost laughable and if anyone thinks that garza is reliable anymore you are kidding yourself, he is rapidly declining and never was the same player at C. Our middle running gsme was laughable at best and pass pro disasters in there went largly unnoticed. (i mean cmon how many freaking times did a de come clean on a 73 or 62 stunt, the most basic there is) add in jay almost never had any room to step up, and you have a whole lot of worthlessness. Not only is this pick (jones/Warmack/cooper) going to be a huge boost now, but an insurance policy for the future
There is not ONE personel up front that you could say confidently will be a starter 3 years from now
Webb-seems to hardly develop past year 2, hasn't been good by any stretch
Spencer-LMAOOOOO
Garza-senior citizen, showing signs of rapid decline, has MAYBE one year left
Louis-knee injury uncertainty
Carimi-seems knee has possibly stunted his dev, although I do think he will vastly improve
Others
Rachel-threat to the public health, I'd say likely let go
Ewill-ehhh, maybe a backup for at least 2 years, I don't see a decent player here
Brown-nothing special
Brown-too little to go off of but you can't bet the bank on a udfa
This leaves us with a real possibility of a year or 2 from now having NO current players starting or 4/5 out, bare minimum being 3/5
Do we really want to go into next year needing 3 replacements? 2 min?
Lovie was canned over the oline for all practical purposes, will a new HC want a similar fate? No.
We inject youth into this line with one of the stated above (jones likely IMO) and the entire team improves, we see what we really have with cutler as he will be facing 2 make or break years IMO defense is on the field less and our offense is more balanced. Lastly and probably the biggest upgrade is inside running. We nab a MLB in the 2nd and go OL again in 4th (barring an extra trade down pick)
If we continue to neglect our oline we will suffer the same fate as last 2 years, and jeopardize cutler and fortes health in the process. We will whine and moan about the oline being awful and be disappointed by missing the playoffs again. I don't want to be taking draft again in December next year....
With that being said (and I appreciate the time to read it)....
German, (and all other T'eo advocates) if we do go T'eo how would you adress the oline nightmare? Bank on a 2nd round pick being a day one starter? Risk another Webb (just getting by not very effective) passing on MUCH better quality. I'm asking in seriousness and respect everyone's opinion on here, it's what makes this place great.
Glad we can have good debates like this and no one does a Rachel like in the past hah!!
Well said and I think your point in bold is an excellent one from a practical and realistic perspective. We all know Lovie was canned almost exclusively due to failures on O in general and specifically on the OL in particular. Emery said so and cited it specifically in his press conference when talking about "not making the playoffs". You normally don't can a well liked HC with a well over 500 total record, who put together a consistently great D, and coming off 11 & 10 win seasons 2 of the last 3 years. On the surface, it looks harsh and over-reactive.
But we all know that Lovie was fired mainly due to what he SHOULD have accomplished rather than lack of what he actually did. And the OL was a huge part of that the last 3-4 years that was repeatedly neglected and mismanaged by Lovie and his chosen subordinates. People who never see Bears games and are mainly AFC fans all know our OL has been a laughingstock for years now, for crying out loud.
No way our new HC, whoever he turns out to be, isn't going to know that his future fate depends mightily upon remedying this.
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That's what I'm thinking, it's apparent why lovie got fired, completely ignoring the o line and mismanaging the pieces we did pick up (Cwill is looking nice in retrospect)
They are going to come in and go OL twice in the first 3 picks IMO and make it clear to fans and the brass they know what needs to be done
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now I have to repeat again and again how I would fix the OL?
I'd start with some trust in our young guys and give them a fair chance to win their spot. I think that they can and did improve during last season and will improve a bit too.
Spencer & Rachal will be gone as will be Scott unless you get a pick for Webb
Brown, Carimi, Garza, EWill will stay. Louis will get a 1 or 2 year extension for cheap to prove he hasn't lost a step.
That's 5 guys already.
We will draft 1 or 2 more to have competition and a higher talent level. Emery will see who is talented and who isn't. Add a FA Guard that is nothing special but a solid player that could win a starting spot.
The biggest problem is and was the LT spot. This will make or break our OL.
Everything will come down to who makes it to Free Agency and if Emery will get them to sign with us. If 1 of the big 4 signs, we hit the jackpot and solved a lot of our problems going forward. If not, we are stuck with Webb again and are fucked again. At #20 we won't get a LT that would win a spot over Webb for next year. It will be either FA or Webb at LT. Or Emery will take a LT and we throw him into the cold water and hope for the best. Not the way you do it...
I'd end up with
FA (long, clady, albert, bushrod) - Carimi - Webb at OT
Draftpick - Brown - Louis - FA - Garza - EWill as OG/OC
That's better than last year and I do think that player will get better when they are young and talented as Brown and Carimi are.
Lovie wasn't fired because of the OL. Lovie was fired because he knows nothing about the Offense. Lovie was fired the day Emery was hired. He just was stuck with him. Go back 1 year and you will find this information.
I also like that there is only talk about the Bama OLs... why not think about guys that would be there at 20 and be worth that pick?
In case you missed, the MLB guys talk about Ogletree and even Minter too.
I wouldn't be mad about Jones, don't get me wrong. I trust in Emery and think he knows better than we do.
I just think a new scheme and offense style will help the line too. Jones would help the line too. Trade down would make sense thinking about this.
How great it would be if Te'o, Jones & Ogletree would be available at 20 and we could trade down to 22 and add an additonal 4th or 5th
edit: what I want to add. I'm a believer in adding talent around the roster and go 1st O 2nd D then next year otherwise to keep the talent level up on both sides of the ball.
this would mean it's offense with the first this year and defense with the 2nd
thinking more about it, Emery will go offense with the 1st.
Last edited by GermansbombedPH; 01-11-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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High Fives / Like - 1 BEAR DOWN!, 0 Dislikes
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Lovie was fired, correctly so, because neither he nor his chosen subordinates could develop, manage, and produce a decent offense. PURE AND SIMPLE. And the biggest eyesore in all that, the biggest flaw, the most epic fail within that colossal fail, ...was the OFFENSIVE LINE.
To spin or deny this is to deny that the earth is round or the sun is the center of the solar system.
EWill blows. He's not worth keeping around. Garza is at the tail end of his usefulness and shouldn't be considered as anything more than "vet depth" for next year. Brown I have hopes for but he shouldn't be counted on to start from the get go anyway. That leaves two starting spots vacant even if you assume we will get a FA LT and the right sided guys come back well from injury. The interior blocking was pathetically bad so the problem wasn't just the edges. We couldn't even pick up 4th & 1s or pound it in consistently from inside the 5.
It's a weak QB class and a strong interior OL class (at the top). Unlike many years, there will likely be at least one OG/C taken in the top 20. Not a "reach" at all under the circumstances. The Alabama OL alone could easily have 3 guys (two of them on the inside) who go in the 1st round plus Cooper might as well. None of these 4 will survive to our 2nd round pick as a whole bunch of teams need OL badly.
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I agree, but to see on both sides of the spectrum, the ONLY way I see us going MLB in round one is if 2 things happen
1. BU walks or retires
2. Emery thinks there would be top tier IOL talent in the 2nd, but this would probably mean that he would have to be prepared to trade up again in the 2nd if need be (we cannot settle for a tier 2 guy on the inside)
3. We hit a home run in FA and get 2 starters on the left side
Even with all 3 happening its a serious gamble, your banking on Louis and carimi to come back without any problems or go hindrances, and praying garza can not nosedive this year (I think that could be the case)
That's a lot to bank on and if we take a MLB and our oline still sucks (probably will) your facing the EXACT same problem as last 2 years
Stellar defense
Irrevelant offense
Miss the playoffs
Finish 3rd or 4th in the NFCN
a risk your willing to take in order to draft a MLB that has ? Of his own?
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Originally Posted by
Grizzblue I agree, but to see on both sides of the spectrum, the ONLY way I see us going MLB in round one is if 2 things happen
1. BU walks or retires
2. Emery thinks there would be top tier IOL talent in the 2nd, but this would probably mean that he would have to be prepared to trade up again in the 2nd if need be (we cannot settle for a tier 2 guy on the inside)
3. We hit a home run in FA and get 2 starters on the left side
Even with all 3 happening its a serious gamble, your banking on Louis and carimi to come back without any problems or go hindrances, and praying garza can not nosedive this year (I think that could be the case)
That's a lot to bank on and if we take a MLB and our oline still sucks (probably will) your facing the EXACT same problem as last 2 years
Stellar defense
Irrevelant offense
Miss the playoffs
Finish 3rd or 4th in the NFCN
a risk your willing to take in order to draft a MLB that has ? Of his own?
And...
get your QB killed and too untrusting to get thru his reads
not be able to run the ball effectively on 1st down
be inept on goal line and short yardage despite having Bush
see your D worn down as the year progresses from being on the field all the time
average 13 ppg down the stretch on O unless your D basically scores for you
go 2-5 vs playoff teams
But...hey, we will have a shiny new 1st round LB (who will probably only replace a serviceable player at SLB in Roach the first year anyway) and a top-10 defense!
Thats the Lovie Plan. No thanks.
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 And...
get your QB killed and too untrusting to get thru his reads
not be able to run the ball effectively on 1st down
be inept on goal line and short yardage despite having Bush
see your D worn down as the year progresses from being on the field all the time
average 13 ppg down the stretch on O unless your D basically scores for you
go 2-5 vs playoff teams
But...hey, we will have a shiny new 1st round LB (who will probably only replace a serviceable player at SLB in Roach the first year anyway) and a top-10 defense!
Thats the Lovie Plan. No thanks.
Excellent points, especially the last sentence, I forgot to mention the point you hit on with cutlers lack of trust, you can tell how his play deteriorates over the year with the hits he takes
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68 And...
get your QB killed and too untrusting to get thru his reads
not be able to run the ball effectively on 1st down
be inept on goal line and short yardage despite having Bush
see your D worn down as the year progresses from being on the field all the time
average 13 ppg down the stretch on O unless your D basically scores for you
go 2-5 vs playoff teams
But...hey, we will have a shiny new 1st round LB (who will probably only replace a serviceable player at SLB in Roach the first year anyway) and a top-10 defense!
Thats the Lovie Plan. No thanks.
That hurt.
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Originally Posted by
jackiejokeman That hurt.
Yea but he's 100% correct, we must go OL in one and if there is a slip 2 as well, a MLB is a vanity pick, we have serviceable guys who would likely beat out T'eo
And what if Shea ends up a LB it's not out of the question(unlikely but we don't know what's going on there)
But we've beaten this dead horse into submission the east west game js gbd first step to shedding light on this lets talk round 2 and above.
Also, the more I think about it the more it seems plausible......
For arguments sake lets say that...
BU is back this year
Barrett sits out of combine and only works out on pro day, his foot appears healed and does everything we wanted to see and looks like he is 100%(I think this will happen like this)
We take Warmack or Cooper at 20..
Pick 52 rolls around and Jones sliped this far due to being listed as C and missing senior bowl/combine, as after combine some guys skyrocket with freakish numbers (Poe type guys) and teams go with combine over tape
Do we draft jones as well and hold off for MLB till four? (Remember part of this scenario is BU is back, and I say he will be IMO)
Just a scenario I could see playing out similar to this
Also disregarding this scenario what types of mid-late picks do you want?
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01-12-2013, 09:10 AM #100
When I think about this, I get angry with Jerry Angelo. Brian Urlacher's replacement should already be on this roster now, with a year or two of experience under his belt. If Brian is done, then there would be no problem. We would seamlessly move him to MLB to replace Brian, just like we did when we acquired BU (this was before JA arrived here as our GM).
We would not be in this stupid "crisis mode" world that Jerry lived in.
Same thing with our offensive line. The line was allowed to atrophy for years, until we are now in a Jerry Angelo created "crisis mode" and we can't fix all of the JA player woes in one year. We shouldn't even have to debate this LB versus OL thing. Great teams don't paint themselves into a corner like this.
They plan ahead. That's the "manager" part of the GM title. Ya gotta be able to manage and plan ahead. Jerry Angelo failed at that. Now we're in "crisis mode" again.
Last edited by JustAnotherBearsFan99; 01-12-2013 at 09:11 AM.
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