Thread: back to the future- inside view on randy moss

The strange ranting of Randy Moss this week takes me back to the weekend of the 2007 Draft; much of it spent trying to sign Moss. It was a brief but intense negotiation that fueled some fire with Brett Favre when, for the first of two times, the Packers couldn’t agree with Moss on a contract.

Moss for sale
The Raiders bold experiment with Moss – they had traded Napoleon Harris and the 7th pick in the 2005 Draft for him – ended after two seasons when Moss could be had for a mid-round pick. Ted Thompson surprisingly had some interest, having been impressed with the way Moss handled himself at a charity event that he happened to be at in Texas. And Brett, of course, was extremely jazzed about the idea.

Now there were two parts to the deal to make it happen. First, there had to be agreement with the Raiders on draft pick compensation. We were offering a fifth-round pick and the Patriots later came up with a fourth. That, however, was the not the key to the deal.

One-year deal breaker
Moss was scheduled to make $9.75 million for 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. Those amounts may well have been $100 million and $200 million; he was not making what was on the contract. We needed to bring in Moss, coming off a year with a pedestrian 43 receptions, at a more reasonable number with upside. The Patriots were also showing interest.
I negotiated with Moss’s agent while the recruiting from the alpha dogs – Brett and Tom Brady -- intensified. Moss was getting texts and calls throughout the weekend from both Favre and Brady both imploring him to come and form a powerhouse duo.

The offers from both teams were very similar for 2007, both around $3 million with additional incentives. Our proposal allowed Moss to make more than the Patriots proposal, although we had significant money tied to 45-man active roster bonuses, protecting us from injury if he could not play.

Our offer, however, required a second year in 2008. Moss and his agents were adamant that he wanted only a one-year deal. Having lost market value from his Raider experience, Moss would agree to a massive pay reduction for 2007 but wanted to hit the open market in 2008 coming off what he expected to be a big season.

The feeling in our discussions was that we did not want to rent Randy for a year only to have him shop to highest bidder in a few months trying to recoup some of his lost earnings in 2007. We discussed different ideas, but in the end we were insistent on a two-year deal. While we haggled about an appropriate roster bonus to activate the second year of the deal, the Patriots relented on the length and agreed to a one-year deal. That was it; he was going with Brady.

Mississippi burning

Brett was livid. The rest of the weekend I was fielding calls from Bus Cook about what went wrong in trying to sign Randy. Ted did not want to deal with Bus, so I listened patiently to their rancor and tried to explain our position.
I truly empathized with Brett. He had befriended and admired Randy for years and the two of them had dreamed of playing together. Here was an opportunity for us to make it a reality. But ultimately, we stood on our principles requiring more than a one-year commitment.

I told Brett to trust what we had at the position; that Greg Jennings would be a star in a couple years. He said he didn’t have a couple of years. Brett offered to give up some of his salary for the following season – although that was his last season with the Packers (see below) -- to bring in Randy. I told that was much appreciated but we would never take his money away from him to sign another player.

Brett was forever wanting a more aggressive attitude by the front office toward player acquisition than the present regime. My constant message that our method of drafting and developing talent rather than acquiring proven commodities only served to infuriate him and his resentment of a general manager that showed him none of the compassion and welcomed input of previous regimes.

Patriot games

Fast forward to 2008. After a wonderful year for the Patriots, catching 98 balls for 1493 yards and 23 touchdowns, Moss was a free agent as he designed, now with interest from several teams to cash in on his one-year deal. And cash in he did, re-signing with the Patriots for a three-year, $27 million deal with over $14 million guaranteed.
And guess what team showed some decent interest again in 2008? Yes, the Packers (along with the Eagles and Cowboys). But again, despite getting Brett's hopes up again, the Packers bowed out of the bidding (I had left the Packers at that point but heard the anger and frustration from Brett’s camp). Moss re-signed with the Patriots on March 3rd. Favre retired from the Packers on March 4th. Coincidence?

Whither Randy?
Now Moss is coming to the end of that deal with deafening silence from the Patriots about re-signing for the third time. A lot can change between now and March, but it appears he has had his run wit the team, and it’s been a successful and lucrative one. And one that found the Packers in second place for his services twice.

just because a player is a diva doesnt mean you shouldnt improve your team with them if you get a shot. The caveat to that is as long as it doesnt hamstring you with other players. Like pandering to Favre kept extensions away for key pieces of the team. Pandering to Randy Moss well he jsut wants to get paid to play. And yes if things arent going good he isnt the best person to have on the team. I dont think teams assume they are going to get worse when they go after guys like Moss.

Could you imagine what our offense could have been with this guy? Or Holmes if wanted a long term young guy. They were given away

Originally Posted by motownbear

I dont think teams assume they are going to get worse when they go after guys like Moss. Could you imagine what our offense could have been with this guy?

There's absolutely no downside to MN on this one. Kudos to Chilly and crew on pulling the trigger to get in someone who will make an immediate impact on the field and change the race within the division overnight.

Originally Posted by Rakk

There's absolutely no downside to MN on this one. Kudos to Chilly and crew on pulling the trigger to get in someone who will make an immediate impact on the field and change the race within the division overnight.

"downside" is because now paying Moss $6.4 mill and gave favre another $3 mill to his $13 million, you do not extend Ap or rice's contracts, and as such they are disgruntled and bolt after 2012.

'downside" is Moss as did in oakland pouts and givs up on plays and becomes infectious on team as they decline all year

"downside" is Moss leaves after year and not making the playoffs, thus wasting a 3rd rounder and having nothing to show for i

here's some more:

From my vantage point, here are the pressure points that will determine the outcome:

1. 
   
2. Is Moss still the same deep threat he was in his prime with the Vikings? In four games this season with the Patriots, Moss had nine catches. Only two of them were on passes that traveled more than 15 yards downfield, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Since Sidney Rice's hip injury, the Vikings' offense has sorely lacked a downfield threat who could make difficult catches in coverage. At 33, is Moss still an elite receiver? According to Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc., he is. "Moss goes deep -- probably better than anyone who has ever lived," Williamson said. "His ball skills are out of this world and he has tremendous hands. Maybe he has lost a smidgen of speed, but getting downfield and behind coverage is not a problem for this guy -- at all. He certainly can take the top off of a defense, provide big plays and open up a lot of room underneath for the running game, Percy Harvin out of the slot and Visanthe Shiancoe in the middle of the field."
   
3. Will there be an adjustment period? It's certainly reasonable to expect one, but the schedule we just discussed doesn't really allow for it. For Moss to take the Vikings where they want to go, he needs to hit the ground running. But for what it's worth, he has never played in a West Coast offense. Moss' football intelligence has always been first-rate, but that doesn't mean he'll have a seamless transition or instantly be in sync with Favre.
   
4. Can the Vikings protect Favre enough to allow the longer passes to develop? To this point, they have not. Favre was battered in their first three games and there are once again questions about whether John Sullivan (calf) will be healthy enough to play Monday night. Williamson said: "In order to go deep, you have to protect. Minnesota's offensive line looks worse than ever to me. Pulling this off won't be easy."
   
5. Will Moss be on his best behavior? You would think so, but his long history of trouble with every organization he has played for should at least give us pause in this regard. The Vikings apparently won't give him a new contract, which should leave him hungry and motivated -- or could also have an opposite effect. The Patriots tried that same tack, leaving him with an expiring contract for motivational purposes, and it backfired. Will Moss accept the same situation in Minnesota?
   
6. Can coach Brad Childress accommodate what is surely to be a Favre-Moss faction of offensive-minded thoughts? Childress' clashes with Favre last season over that issue were well-documented. Trust me when I tell you that Moss is every bit as strong-minded when it comes to scheme as Favre is. Williamson said Moss "won't run West Coast routes" if Favre has any say in it, but this offense has been awfully rigid over time.
7. 
   
8. How will the Packers and Bears match up with a Vikings offense that once again has a deep threat? The Bears, for one, have made substantial improvement to their pass defense with the addition of defensive end Julius Peppers. They are playing their Cover 2 scheme as well as ever. When played right, it dramatically reduces an offense's ability to get the ball to outside receivers. As for the Packers, cornerback Charles Woodson, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year, didn't arrive in the NFC North until after Moss' departure and probably has his own ideas about how their matchup might go.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth

DB they are in it to win it all this year now that they have Favre. They dont know what the future holds as far as qb is concerned to worry about wasting a 3 rounder. To put it in perspective isnt Wolffe, Briggs, and Wright the only third rounders left on this team from JA drafts? I think that is worth the risk of Moss. And again when winning he doesnt pout

Originally Posted by motownbear

DB they are in it to win it all this year now that they have Favre. They dont know what the future holds as far as qb is concerned to worry about wasting a 3 rounder. To put it in perspective isnt Wolffe, Briggs, and Wright the only third rounders left on this team from JA drafts? I think that is worth the risk of Moss. And again when winning he doesnt pout

Oh i agree they have gone "all in" and dammned the future on vikes.. but saying doing THAT is without "any" downside, is IMo wrong and i just pointed out some of the downside of going All in- it not a a 'no downside' move. And he seems to be pouting on NE this year( and why traded) and they are winning, so disagree with the Winning statement.

there downside is players not wanting to be there anymore. But Vikings are desperate to win now especially with how shit they are doing financially

if I was the owner the Favre fiasco wouldnt have happened. I would have sent a 2 rounder in a heart beat for McNab and he would be getting paid 10 mil less then Favre where I could use it on Rice, AP, Greenway etc...but Im just a poster lol

Originally Posted by motownbear

there downside is players not wanting to be there anymore. But Vikings are desperate to win now especially with how shit they are doing financially

if I was the owner the Favre fiasco wouldnt have happened. I would have sent a 2 rounder in a heart beat for McNab and he would be getting paid 10 mil less then Favre where I could use it on Rice, AP, Greenway etc...but Im just a poster lol

yep, we have talked before about this.. When people said "give favre what he wants for 2010, no downside blah blah'.. pointed out then the 'downside, was no camp= bad preperation, becuase paying favre so much can't extend the others,, and it caused rice to have surgery way to late for season.. So was 'downside" to it..

just saying this move also comes with downside- and how do you think rice feels when comes back making under $1 mill, and think Ap get $2 mill....while moss gets $6.4 mill and favre $16 mill?

Originally Posted by dabears54

"downside" is because now paying Moss $6.4 mill and gave favre another $3 mill to his $13 million, you do not extend Ap or rice's contracts, and as such they are disgruntled and bolt after 2012.

'downside" is Moss as did in oakland pouts and givs up on plays and becomes infectious on team as they decline all year

"downside" is Moss leaves after year and not making the playoffs, thus wasting a 3rd rounder and having nothing to show for i

here's some more:

From my vantage point, here are the pressure points that will determine the outcome:

1. 
   
2. Is Moss still the same deep threat he was in his prime with the Vikings? In four games this season with the Patriots, Moss had nine catches. Only two of them were on passes that traveled more than 15 yards downfield, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Since Sidney Rice's hip injury, the Vikings' offense has sorely lacked a downfield threat who could make difficult catches in coverage. At 33, is Moss still an elite receiver? According to Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc., he is. "Moss goes deep -- probably better than anyone who has ever lived," Williamson said. "His ball skills are out of this world and he has tremendous hands. Maybe he has lost a smidgen of speed, but getting downfield and behind coverage is not a problem for this guy -- at all. He certainly can take the top off of a defense, provide big plays and open up a lot of room underneath for the running game, Percy Harvin out of the slot and Visanthe Shiancoe in the middle of the field."
   
3. Will there be an adjustment period? It's certainly reasonable to expect one, but the schedule we just discussed doesn't really allow for it. For Moss to take the Vikings where they want to go, he needs to hit the ground running. But for what it's worth, he has never played in a West Coast offense. Moss' football intelligence has always been first-rate, but that doesn't mean he'll have a seamless transition or instantly be in sync with Favre.
   
4. Can the Vikings protect Favre enough to allow the longer passes to develop? To this point, they have not. Favre was battered in their first three games and there are once again questions about whether John Sullivan (calf) will be healthy enough to play Monday night. Williamson said: "In order to go deep, you have to protect. Minnesota's offensive line looks worse than ever to me. Pulling this off won't be easy."
   
5. Will Moss be on his best behavior? You would think so, but his long history of trouble with every organization he has played for should at least give us pause in this regard. The Vikings apparently won't give him a new contract, which should leave him hungry and motivated -- or could also have an opposite effect. The Patriots tried that same tack, leaving him with an expiring contract for motivational purposes, and it backfired. Will Moss accept the same situation in Minnesota?
   
6. Can coach Brad Childress accommodate what is surely to be a Favre-Moss faction of offensive-minded thoughts? Childress' clashes with Favre last season over that issue were well-documented. Trust me when I tell you that Moss is every bit as strong-minded when it comes to scheme as Favre is. Williamson said Moss "won't run West Coast routes" if Favre has any say in it, but this offense has been awfully rigid over time.
7. 
   
8. How will the Packers and Bears match up with a Vikings offense that once again has a deep threat? The Bears, for one, have made substantial improvement to their pass defense with the addition of defensive end Julius Peppers. They are playing their Cover 2 scheme as well as ever. When played right, it dramatically reduces an offense's ability to get the ball to outside receivers. As for the Packers, cornerback Charles Woodson, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year, didn't arrive in the NFC North until after Moss' departure and probably has his own ideas about how their matchup might go.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth

BLUF: All Ziggy/Chilly cares about is winning this year. Moss's acquisition helps that tremendously. He can and still does stretch the field and forces opposing Ds to keep someone over the top on him always or he will burn em.

Who knows how Rice will come back. Harvin? Health-wise he's almost week to week if not day to day. Berrian? enough said

All your "downsides" are speculative and may/may not happen so who cares?

Moss' Oakland antics? He was almost a model citizen in NE.

BTW your #1 & #7 points didn't copy/paste over...