Thread: In light of this recent embarrassment!

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Dated or not it doesn't change the fact that the only people interested in an NFL team in LA are the owners and the guy that is over spending for that stadium.

You have no facts, bro. All you have is opinion.

Besides, why in heaven's name would a billionaire be willing to spend that kind of coin for a team that no one will support?!?

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Ya Roski knows what he's doing, and so did the scientists from 100 years ago that thought the world was flat; when they were using the most up to date research and tools they had.

You just made my point for me. Those scientists were right for their time much like you.

It wasn't until better tools and different minds entered the equation that the real discovery was made.

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Actually one of those teams moved to Anaheim b/c of LA's lack of interest didn't they...and are the clippers really supported?

Do your research about Orange county and how it was all agriculture until Disneyland. Once Disneyland was built, people started living there. I wasn't there but I would think that Rams' ownership believed that Orange county could support its own team while Al Davis was essentially given the Los Angeles county market.

Businesspeople aren't stupid, bro. They go where they believe they will make the most return on their investment. I imagine that the Rams moved to Anaheim because they believed it was an untapped market at the time.

Even after all of that history.... Do you really believe that it will be the same as it was 16 years ago? That is a full generation of people ago!

Sidenote: Why would the Raiders sue the NFL over building a new stadium in Hollywood Park if the Raiders had such shoddy support in Los Angeles?

Sidenote 2: Why did the Vikings, Cardinals, Redskins, Giants, Jets, & Bills oppose the Rams' move to St. Louis? Those teams argued that ownership had "horribly mismanaged" the franchise. How long should a fan base support what is considered a "horribly mismanaged" franchise by its peers?

As far as the Clippers go... If you define support as the owner making money, that would be a yes. To the best of my knowledge seating capacity at Staples Center for Clipper games is 19,079.

• In 2006-2007, the Clippers averaged 18,421. They won 40 games that season.

• In 2007-2008, the Clippers averaged 16,888. They won 23 games that season.

• In 2008-2009, the Clippers averaged 16,170. They won 19 games that season.

• In 2009-2010, the Clippers averaged 16,343. They won 29 games that season.

You can see more Clipper attendance figures here.

But if we take those 4 seasons and average them out we get 16,956 and that would be 88.87% capacity. That is damn good for a team that averaged almost 28 wins over that same time span. If you're curious that would be a .338 winning percentage and an 88.87% capacity.

Does that qualify as support in your book?

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

No purple, they were not right; unless you honestly believe the world is/was flat. They were dead wrong.

Exactly. At the time, EVERYONE believed the world was flat. We look back now and say to ourselves, "Wow. How could someone believe that rubbish!?"

Just like you believed that Los Angeles could not support an NFL team 16 years ago. Heck, maybe you're right! Especially when you don't even consider addressing a single point that I made about the gaping holes in your argument! In either case, you are using 16 year old data to back up your point!

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Hell why would billionaires invest in an obviously inflated housing market; an over valued internet stock; enron

Wow. Really? You really believe that Jeff Skilling and and Kenneth Lay took a bath at Enron?! I have an assignment for you... Watch this....



Or you can just trust me when I say, those billionaires made off with BILLIONS!

The inflated California housing market? Heck, I did well during that mess! I would wager several people with way more money than me did exponentially better.

Tech stocks during the tech boom? I might concede your point but even then a handful of companies made billionaires out of ordinary people overnight. Heck, even I made a nice chunk of change there too!

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

...Guess what, billionaires look at profit/loss potential, and when your looking at the 2nd largest market your not thinking if the fans will show up to the most popular game; your thinking THEY WILL; problem is in LA they don't and that fact, until proven otherwise, is FACT LA does not goto pro games.

You must have missed the part where I posted about a stadium being built for the Raiders near Hollywood Park? Well, if I were you, I would ignore that too. That TOTALLY blows your argument to smithereens!

Again, you must have missed the part where I said that we were just ordinary internet message board posters.

Or, perhaps, I was wrong. Perhaps, I made an incorrect assumption? I do apologize but where is your masters degree in economics from? Or maybe an MBA?

Also, again, your "facts" are 16 years old. Plus, since you spent all those years studying business and never came around the science departments of your university, I'll let you in on a little secret. There are facts out there but we don't know very many of them. What we have are current beliefs. Long ago, society believed the sun was a god. Long ago, society believed the earth was the center of the galaxy. Long ago, society believed the earth was flat. See? As a race we are still woefully misinformed about our world and even ourselves!

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

The funniest/sadest part of this is you have taken a simple, throw away comment, and tried to turn it into a serious discussion;

It is a "discussion board," isn't it? Or am I in the wrong place?

By the way, let's keep in mind, the funniest/saddest applies to you as well. Only DB can have a conversation alone!

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

as if I give two shakes about LA...or their NFL hope/dreams; hell I hope LA does get it just to see it fail yet again.

If a franchise does fail in Los Angeles, I hope you say that rather than dropping some random, made up number to make it sound like you've studied this issue. Say that next time, & I'm pretty sure that I'll ignore it. Mainly because I can't argue with your opinion.

I can argue with, "Only 15% of folks in LA care about the NFL!" I can argue with that because it is asinine! This is a discussion that I've had a a few times already and believe me, I am more educated on this topic than you. Besides, I LIVE here and have LIVED here for several years. I've watched several big time, big money individuals and groups try to get an NFL franchise back in LA only to be thwarted by the LA City Council and the Coliseum Commission. I paid attention because I want to support an NFL franchise in LA. And of the greater Los Angeles metropolitan area which includes almost 18,000,000 people, I am certain I am not the only one. Heck, I know two folks in Santa Barbara county that would go to an NFL game in LA with me because they would probably end up crashing at my house!

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

I'm guessing that CA in general just is not a NFL state; or maybe their just like LA fans in general; teams good they'll show up; not so good, not so much....

This point dovetails motowns's point nicely.

While I can argue with you about whether or not CA or LA support the NFL in general terms. When it comes to circumstances like economics and unemployment, very, very few people will spend that money on the NFL's product. I can completely agree with that. Los Angeles suffers from the same problem Miami suffers from time to time when our professional teams aren't that good. We have too many options for entertainment here. The Lakers, Dodgers, Kings, Clippers, Ducks, Angels, Trojans, & Bruins compete with Disneyland, Magic Mountain, Knott's Berry Farm, Universal Studios, skiing/snowboarding in the winter, surfing/boating/diving the rest of the year, casinos, Hollywood, great dining, great wine, nightclubs, live music/comedians, etc. There is no limit to the alternatives to professional sports in Los Angeles.

Why support a crappy team when you can lay out on the beach?

Although, truth be told, I contradict myself here. Even when the Dodgers/Angels sucked they pulled more fans than the Cubs/White Sox.

Why support a crappy teams when you can go snowboarding or skiing?

Although, truth be told, I contradict myself again because if we look at those Clippers attendance stats we see that they draw even when they're winning a handful of games.

Lastly, if I come off like a dick, I don't mean to. Honestly, I don't. Frankly, I am just trying to help you see past your sixteen year old data & welcome you to 2010. The numbers back everything that I have typed in this thread but you are welcome to believe what you wish. I would hope though that these numbers would get you to reconsider your position and inspire you to do some research of your own. Don't trust my word! Find out for yourself.

Maybe you just aren't a fan of the west coast or Los Angeles in general. If so, I hope that you reconsider that point as well because I was born and raised on the west coast and I have lived in Los Angeles county for almost 20 years. I hope you don't dislike me just because I am "one of them."

Originally Posted by purplejokr

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Is that Ed Lover?

I agree. Minnesota has some heritage with football. The state was home to Bronko Nagurski (or at least he attended the University of Minnesota, but I keep thinking that he lived in International Falls, MN, so purplejokr, if you have the specs on that, let me know if that's right), and the Minnesota Golden Gophers were, at one time, the second leading team in the Big Ten, trailing only Michigan, before Ohio State turned into a major collegiate powerhouse. People forget that the Vikings have appeared in four Super Bowls and, at one time, possessed the league's all-time leading passer (Fran Tarkenton). To move the Vikings from Minnesota would be unfortunate and tragically stupid.