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Breaking News, Judge Nelson says lift Lockout
This was important enough to post in this forum too. As expected Juge Susan Nelson granted the players request for an injuction against the Lockout immediately. NFL to appeal. What's next?
Judge Nelson rules for players, lockout to be lifted
- By Albert Breer NFL.com
- NFL Network Reporter
- Published: April 25, 2011 at 05:53 p.m.
- Updated: April 25, 2011 at 06:39 p.m.
- Liked: 162 | Comments: 208
- By Albert Breer NFL.com
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MINNEAPOLIS -- Judge Susan Nelson Monday granted the plaintiffs' request for an injunction to lift the NFL lockout.
But perhaps the biggest development is that Nelson has decided not to stay the decision, which could force the league to open for business immediately. The NFL now must seek a stay with the Eighth Circuit, where the appeal would be heard, in order to prevent a potentially chaotic beginning to the 2011 league year.
Nelson's decision in the Brady et al v. National Football League et al case comes on the heels of the mediation she appointed going into a nearly-month long recess, with U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan making the decision last Wednesday to adjourn the session until May 16.
The league will likely appeal Nelson's decision swiftly, wanting to avoid the beginning of free agency and offseason programs with the potential that, if the Eighth Circuit rules in its favor, the lockout could be reinstated in the coming weeks or months.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. 
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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It means nothing as the league is going to appeal and will probably not allow the players back to work until the appeal is completed.
It does improve the players bargaining position.
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity 
It means nothing as the league is going to appeal and will probably not allow the players back to work until the appeal is completed.
It does improve the players bargaining position.
The important thing is that Judge Nelson did not stay the execution of the injunction which means the owners must lift the lockout immediately unless they can get the 8th Ciruit Court to grant a stay while the appeal is being heard. If they do not grant the stay then the league must remove the lockout and open for business which means the players would have access to team facilities and coaches access to players.
But you're right, it does improve the players bargaining position if the 8th Circuit Court doesn't overturn Judge Nelson's decision on appeal. It's just the first battle. The war ain't over yet but they don't return to mediation until mid May and the appeal will most likely be heard before then.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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They (NFL) first have to have grounds for an appeal. In order for the 8th circuit to even accept the case there must be a clear error committed by Judge Nelson in her decision. In all that I have been able to read I don't see the error and therefore cannot see why the 8th circuit court would even entertain the case in the first place. You can't just appeal for the hell of it just because you lost in a lower court, there has to be a sound argument made in the brief as to an error committed by the lower courts decision. At this point I don't see that and believe the the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals will not even hear the case and therefore the season will commence on 2010's rules until a new CBA is reached. This is just my opinion based on all I have seen and read so far.......
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Originally Posted by
thekmann They (NFL) first have to have grounds for an appeal. In order for the 8th circuit to even accept the case there must be a clear error committed by Judge Nelson in her decision. In all that I have been able to read I don't see the error and therefore cannot see why the 8th circuit court would even entertain the case in the first place. You can't just appeal for the hell of it just because you lost in a lower court, there has to be a sound argument made in the brief as to an error committed by the lower courts decision. At this point I don't see that and believe the the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals will not even hear the case and therefore the season will commence on 2010's rules until a new CBA is reached. This is just my opinion based on all I have seen and read so far.......
k-man, the NFL already state the grounds FWIW:
We will promptly seek a stay from Judge Nelson pending an expedited appeal to the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals. We believe that federal law bars injunctions in labor disputes. We are confident that the Eighth Circuit will agree. But we also believe that this dispute will inevitably end with a collective bargaining agreement, which would be in the best interests of players, clubs and fans. We can reach a fair agreement only if we continue negotiations toward that goal.
During the April 6 injunction hearing, the league's case stood on two main points: That the National Labor Relations Board had to rule on the validity of the NFLPA's decertification as a union first, and as such Nelson lacked primary jurisdiction; And that the Norris-Laguardia Act precluded any court from enacting an injunction in a case arising from a labor dispute.
Last edited by dabears54; 04-26-2011 at 11:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by
dabears54 k-man, the NFL already state the grounds FWIW:
During the April 6 injunction hearing, the league's case stood on two main points: That the National Labor Relations Board had to rule on the validity of the NFLPA's decertification as a union first, and as such Nelson lacked primary jurisdiction; And that the Norris-Laguardia Act precluded any court from enacting an injunction in a case arising from a labor dispute.
The first arguement was rejected by Judge Nelson when she took the case and there may be little or absolutely no grounds for the 8th Circuit to see it differently. It delays a decision interminably and isn't a very strong position for the owners to bank on for appeal.
As to the second arguement, Judge Nelson seemed to find it rather amusing that the NFL would build it's defense around a labor act meant to protect the employees, not the employer. Before they accept the case they would also have to find that she misinterpreted this and if used as a basis for her ruling that it may be grounds to overturn her.
According to what I've read she doesn't have a track record of consistently being over ruled and higher courts are still somewhat loathe to do it. So, I'd give the NFL no better than a 70% chance that the appeal will even be heard and less than 50% that she will be over turned.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Originally Posted by
soulman The first arguement was rejected by Judge Nelson when she took the case and there may be little or absolutely no grounds for the 8th Circuit to see it differently. It delays a decision interminably and isn't a very strong position for the owners to bank on for appeal.
As to the second arguement, Judge Nelson seemed to find it rather amusing that the NFL would build it's defense around a labor act meant to protect the employees, not the employer. Before they accept the case they would also have to find that she misinterpreted this and if used as a basis for her ruling that it may be grounds to overturn her.
According to what I've read she doesn't have a track record of consistently being over ruled and higher courts are still somewhat loathe to do it. So, I'd give the NFL no better than a 70% chance that the appeal will even be heard and less than 50% that she will be over turned.
while i do not agree with your percentages soul- the point whether you or i agree with it, is there is grounds for the appeal( and with the lawyers the league has, they aren't dummies, nor filing something they think as no chance).. and its up to the circuit court to decide if they are valid... that is what they are for, and alot more pro-business
but the more think about this whole sorid mess, the more think the union is playing into the league's hands.. a de-certifified union means no more contributions to the pensions of retired players,no more curent insurance for players( each player a general contractor now) and of course no more cap , which will help all the lower revenue teams really reduce payroll( as saw in 2010)... still think this a "loss by winning" stategy for the "union"... and the league is happy with letting this play out until the end when the hammer falls and players reaize all the ramifications of this.. and most except for the high end players not good.
Last edited by dabears54; 04-26-2011 at 11:43 AM.
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It's all just becoming a source of frustration to everyone involved but as long as they can't negotiate it the courts will have to assist in the settlement process. I'm certain that the 8th Circuit will either dismiss the appeal or hear the case and render an opinion before mediation is scheduled to resume in May.
Those decisions will have an impact on future mediation as I see it. If all else fails the lockout is lifted and they play under 2010 rules. Not the best for either side IMO but it insures two things. 1) There will be a 2011 season and 2) There will still be much to be done towards reaching a final agreement on a new CBA. The NFL can't operate forever without one.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Junior Member
Originally Posted by
dabears54 k-man, the NFL already state the grounds FWIW:
During the April 6 injunction hearing, the league's case stood on two main points: That the National Labor Relations Board had to rule on the validity of the NFLPA's decertification as a union first, and as such Nelson lacked primary jurisdiction; And that the Norris-Laguardia Act precluded any court from enacting an injunction in a case arising from a labor dispute.
So this is getting into the whole State laws trumping Federal laws and vice versa like the whole StarCaps thing. So the NFL is saying that Judge Nelson should not have even been involved in the case in the first place and NOT that her ruling was in any way flawed, just that it should not have been heard in her court. On that then I'm sure the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals may hear the case, but it is a known fact that most appellate courts do not like to overturn lower courts decisions unless there is sound reasoning to do so. It seems that if the NFL felt that Judge Nelsons court had no business hearing the case in the first place they should have sought an injunction by a higher court to that degree. Maybe I missed that part. It seems strange that they went before her and argued their case and now they lost so they seek an appeal based on the fact she didn't have legal jurisdiction to even rule on the case in the first place. It seems like a complete waste of everyones time. I hope the appellate court rules post haste and does not drag this out for weeks on end.
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Originally Posted by
thekmann So this is getting into the whole State laws trumping Federal laws and vice versa like the whole StarCaps thing. So the NFL is saying that Judge Nelson should not have even been involved in the case in the first place and NOT that her ruling was in any way flawed, just that it should not have been heard in her court. On that then I'm sure the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals may hear the case, but it is a known fact that most appellate courts do not like to overturn lower courts decisions unless there is sound reasoning to do so. It seems that if the NFL felt that Judge Nelsons court had no business hearing the case in the first place they should have sought an injunction by a higher court to that degree. Maybe I missed that part. It seems strange that they went before her and argued their case and now they lost so they seek an appeal based on the fact she didn't have legal jurisdiction to even rule on the case in the first place. It seems like a complete waste of everyones time. I hope the appellate court rules post haste and does not drag this out for weeks on end.
think they tried, but it ended in Judge nelson's court and know dubois from beginning saying it was a federal not state issue..and agree 100% on the complete waste of time( except the lawyers literally collecting MILLIONS in fee's for this nonsense). keep in mind the "union", not league, filed this lawsuit to lift the lockout.
think brandt a few weeks ago did 2 good articles explaining thsis whole process from both sides
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ll-happen.html
2. Grant the Injunction (Lift the lockout)
This is the result football fans want, although it is not as ideal as it sounds. Yes, football might be back in business and fans may celebrate. However, hold the phone…
The NFL will appeal this result to the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals. The question then becomes whether the NFL will resume business during appeal or whether the injunction is stayed (held), meaning more of the lockout.
Judge Nelson has great discretion here. She can grant the injunction and order it be enforced immediately – meaning the NFL must lift the lockout – regardless of appeal. Or she could stay the injunction (maintain the lockout) while the NFL appeals. It is up to her, but my sense is the lockout continues upon appeal.
3. Back to the NLRB
Parallel to this entire courtroom drama has been the track the NFL pursuing an unfair labor practice charge in front of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). The Owners refuse to accept that the NFL has decertified, referring to their dissolution as a “fake suicide”.
The NFL filed a complaint with the NLRB on February 14, amended in March, arguing that the former union is still a present union. They have asked Judge Nelson to defer so that the NLRB first determines whether there is still a union. And if there is a still a union, the Players cannot file an antitrust claim.
Judge Nelson could refuse to rule here and defer to the NLRB before taking the case. That result would be extremely beneficial for Owners as the result would be the clock ticking while the Players are locked out.
and:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ion-phase.html
Reasons for pessimism
The Players feel emboldened after the hearing last week. Nelson seemed to be leaning their way regarding the venue -- the Court over the NLRB -- and irreparable harm, noting that if the lockout were not lifted it could last forever.
The Owners feel that Nelson could still rule for them and even if she does not, they feel good about appeal. David Boies is known primarily for his prowess in appellate courts and the Eighth Circuit may be more kind to the NFL than the District Court level. And even if the NFL loses on appeal and opens for business, the Players will not like working under temporary rules that will resemble those of 2010.
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