Disgruntled Harvin requests trade from Vikings

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Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Matt Forte disease? Matt Forte has proven to be a top 10 back, the players regard him as the 7th best back in the league. He's one of a handfull of RB's that has averaged 1K yards from scrimmage each of his 1st 4 years. he's not over valuing himself. he's just inbetween a rock and a hard place b/c the Bears DON'T have to give him fair market value.

Percy wishes on his best day he could be as valuable as Forte is. But I do agree w/you, the Vikes are as close to being in rebuild mode as a team can be w/out actually being in it, why not trade a guy w/more hype then performance? Perfect time to sell is right now on the kid.

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Matt Forte disease equals overvaluing one's self. I have not kept a close eye on Forte's negotiations with the Bears but if Forte expects to get "elite" RB money like Peterson or Johnson, he is overvaluing himself.

I don't want to get off the thread topic so I won't continue.

I never once compared Forte to Harvin either so I really don't know why you felt compelled to do so. The two men play two different positions and are given different roles in their respective offenses.

I'm just givin you crap joker. :p.


btw he's not expecting AP/CJ money he stated so much on the top 100 react show. he just wants money comenserate w/other top rb's...which he is...not ap/cj or even foster but after the top 3 you can start debating a little. I think the Players tagged him pretty well at 7.

I actually like Harvin, but the migrane thing is a hell of a neg on what he could have been. And btw, I did agree w/you if he is demanding a trade, If Im Ziggy I'd entertain offers.

I hate to say it because I think Harvin is a heck of a talent but considering that talent and the normal level of hubris of the average NFL head coach, the Vikings could make out like bandits in a Harvin deal.

Don't get me wrong though, I LOVE the guy.

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Originally Posted by 4th and 26

Can he play cornerback?

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More importantly, can he block better than a guy who ranks lower than every team in the league +1? lol

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Originally Posted by purplejokr

Matt Forte disease equals overvaluing one's self. I have not kept a close eye on Forte's negotiations with the Bears but if Forte expects to get "elite" RB money like Peterson or Johnson, he is overvaluing himself.

I don't want to get off the thread topic so I won't continue.

I never once compared Forte to Harvin either so I really don't know why you felt compelled to do so. The two men play two different positions and are given different roles in their respective offenses.

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Probably because you are looking at the situation all wrong.

Is Forte an elite RB? Yes. He has been a third of our offense, and i seem to remember he has MORE yards from scrimmage then AP did in a similar time frame (not counting injuries from either).

Problem is, "Elite RBs" just arent worth "elite money" anymore, since their careers are always shorter then other key positions and the NFL has shifted into a dual back, pass-happy league.

So yes, while Forte IS in the same league as other elite backs, the bottom line is that RBs just simply are not worth that kind of money anymore. Maybe this will change in the future, who knows...but the "Forte disease" is false, since its not his compensation that is in question, its compensation for his POSITION that is. You may call him overvalued, i simply will suggest that other RBs were overpaid.

Harvin is ok. He's a lot like Peter Warrick. He wouldn't be such a great loss if they dealt him. If I was the GM I would deal him if I could get at least a 2nd rd pick.

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Originally Posted by Jimmors

Probably because you are looking at the situation all wrong.

Is Forte an elite RB? Yes. He has been a third of our offense, and i seem to remember he has MORE yards from scrimmage then AP did in a similar time frame (not counting injuries from either).

Problem is, "Elite RBs" just arent worth "elite money" anymore, since their careers are always shorter then other key positions and the NFL has shifted into a dual back, pass-happy league.

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We both know that our definitions of the word 'elite' differ. Like Riczaj01 discussed, Forte's peers have him ranked about 7th in the NFL. There are 32 NFL teams with 32 starting RBs. If Forte's peers' ranking is good enough for both of us that would put Forte in the top 21.8 percentile. For you, 'elite' means the top twenty percent and I will concede the remainder of 1.8 in the 21.8%. For me, 'elite' means, at the most conservative, top 10-12%.

Plus, at the end of the day, I have had this conversation with dozens of basketball fans and I have always said that just because the best guy on your team is the best guy on your team is doesn't make him worth max money in an NBA sense. I get that Forte is one heck of a player. However, just because Player X is the best player that you have that doesn't mean he should be valued like an MVP candidate would be.

Lastly, this is just semantics...

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Originally Posted by Jimmors

its not his compensation that is in question, its compensation for his POSITION that is. You may call him overvalued, i simply will suggest that other RBs were overpaid.

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It is the compensation for the position, huh? No matter how you look at it, J.... Forte has overvalued himself based on the party's inability to come to a deal. I know the Bears can be cheap but I don't believe them to be unfair. From my perspective, the Bears should probably offer less money than they have because of the lack of longevity from the position. And you mention the fact that teams are moving away from running the ball and are moving toward passing the ball. Further devaluing the position of RB. With that said, even conceding a devaluation of the position... Forte thinks he is worth more than the Bears are offering, therefore, Forte has overvalued himself.

And, threadjack complete.

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Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear

Harvin is ok. He's a lot like Peter Warrick. He wouldn't be such a great loss if they dealt him. If I was the GM I would deal him if I could get at least a 2nd rd pick.

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I agree. I feel about Harvin like I mentioned in my previous post... He's the Vikings' BEST WR but that doesn't make him Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson. If Spielman can get a good deal for Harvin, I would hope he takes it.

Well I think Elite is random; 1% 20% etc etc. I think if you findyourself a top 10 you can be considered elite ecspecially at the RB position where outside the top 10-12 guys you don't have 1K yard gainers; and that is normally only the top 10.

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Originally Posted by purplejokr

We both know that our definitions of the word 'elite' differ. Like Riczaj01 discussed, Forte's peers have him ranked about 7th in the NFL. There are 32 NFL teams with 32 starting RBs. If Forte's peers' ranking is good enough for both of us that would put Forte in the top 21.8 percentile. For you, 'elite' means the top twenty percent and I will concede the remainder of 1.8 in the 21.8%. For me, 'elite' means, at the most conservative, top 10-12%.

Plus, at the end of the day, I have had this conversation with dozens of basketball fans and I have always said that just because the best guy on your team is the best guy on your team is doesn't make him worth max money in an NBA sense. I get that Forte is one heck of a player. However, just because Player X is the best player that you have that doesn't mean he should be valued like an MVP candidate would be.

Lastly, this is just semantics...



It is the compensation for the position, huh? No matter how you look at it, J.... Forte has overvalued himself based on the party's inability to come to a deal. I know the Bears can be cheap but I don't believe them to be unfair. From my perspective, the Bears should probably offer less money than they have because of the lack of longevity from the position. And you mention the fact that teams are moving away from running the ball and are moving toward passing the ball. Further devaluing the position of RB. With that said, even conceding a devaluation of the position... Forte thinks he is worth more than the Bears are offering, therefore, Forte has overvalued himself.

And, threadjack complete.

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I dont use percentages like that to define "elite,' ESPECIALLY coming from their peers. I could care less what NFL players think of other NFL players.

It doesnt matter if a RB gets 2000 yards rushing in a year, or 2000 yards from Rushing AND receiving, the end result is the same, and the former is just as valuable as the latter. Thats like saying Lance Briggs isnt an 'elite' OLB because he he has very few sacks...thats only one stat, and an OLB in a 4-3 system will have different skill sets then one in a 3-4.

I claim Forte is elite because his yards from scrimmage exceed that of other "elite" backs, regardless of his rushing total, and he did it with a questionable OL, and knowing that opposing defenses were always keyed on him. If you put him under a different OC, with a good OL, he very well COULD have higher rushing totals, especially if said offense has solid passing game. Forte cant control those factors, and could only make do with what we had.

And yes, he "overvalued" himself, but not because of HIS value, but because the past previous RBs jacked up the asking price for RBs, so he is simply falling in line behind them. He doesnt deserve that much, but neither do the previous few RBs who jacked the market.