Thread: Fitzpatrick, Campbell, Cassell

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

jackie take your meds. this is a new offensive system under trestman.

and campbell sucked even with protection. he sucked in dc and oaklamd too. he's not a nfl caliber qb

Sayin' so don't make it so Ric.

Over 14,000 total yards passing, a 60.9% completion rate, 76 tds vs 52 picks, and a career QB rating of 82.5 says you're wrong. Since you all are so convinced that stats don't lie and I'm the one who chooses to ignore them why don't you compare his career stats to Cutler's and then tell us he's not an NFL caliber QB.

Roughly the same completion pecentage; 60.9% vs 60.8%, a slightly better td/int ratio; 1.46:1 vs 1.36:1 and only a slightly lower passer rating; 82.5 vs 84.0. If Campbell isn't an NFL caliber QB the how could Cutler be and yet he's considered to have the potential to be one of the best in the game. If Campbell's stats are that similar to Cutler's how does that make him crap and Cutler gold? Is it because he has a deeper tan?

I'm not putting him in the same class as Cutler but he's far from useless. If you give him an offense he can run and enough time to run it he can play pretty well and his track record indicates that. He was no more prepared to come in for Cutler last year than Hanie was the previous year and it showed in both cases. That's on Martz and Tice as far as I'm concerned. It was their job to see that their backup was ready and they failed to do it.

Let's face it Ric you just don't like the guy period so why not just come out and say it because the FACTS don't confirm what you believe. Of course that doesn't mean you have stop believing it but not all of the rest of us are gonna agree that we can make to do with a couple of rookie QBs backing Cutler and other than Campbell that's about what we might have.

Besides that Emery and the coaching staff have hinted that they'd like him back at the right price and it's becoming somewhat comical that some of you thought we overpaid for a #2 QB by paying him $3.5 mil for one year when Matt Moore just signed for $4 mil per year for two years and he's a hell of a lot less experienced than Campbell and surely no better a QB right now.

So excuse me if I take more notice of Emery and Trestman's opinions of the guy than yours. I think they have a little more experience when it comes to that.

Personally I don't care whether it Campbell or someone else but so far Phil Emery has show no inclination whatsoever to allow someone like a Caleb Hanie or a Matt Blanchard to be our #2 QB so I think we can expect him to "waste some more money" this year on a #2 with some NFL playing experience whether it's Campbell or someone else.


Jason Campbell #2 QB
Chicago Bears | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5 Weight: 230 Age: 31
Born: 12/31/1981 Laurel , MS
College: Auburn
Experience: 9th season
High School: Taylorsville HS [MS]

Recent Games more
WK	OPP	RESULT		Passing										Rushing				Fumbles
				Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	TD	Int	Sck	SckY	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	FUM	Lost
15	GB	L 13-21		--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	0.0	--	--	--	--	--	--
16	@ARI	W 28-13		--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	0.0	--	--	--	--	--	--
17	@DET	W 26-24		--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	0.0	--	--	--	--	--	--

Career Stats more
Season	Team			Passing										Rushing				Fumbles
		G	GS	Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	TD	Int	Sck	SckY	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	FUM	Lost
2012	Chicago Bears	6	1	32	51	62.7	265	5.2	2	2	6	49	72.8	7	28	4.0	0	2	0
2011	Oakland Raiders	6	6	100	165	60.6	1,170	7.1	6	4	5	19	84.2	18	60	3.3	2	3	1
2010	Oakland Raiders	13	12	194	329	59.0	2,387	7.3	13	8	33	208	84.5	47	222	4.7	1	9	1
2009	Washington Redskins	16	16	327	507	64.5	3,618	7.1	20	15	43	285	86.4	46	236	5.1	1	13	3
2008	Washington Redskins	16	16	315	506	62.3	3,245	6.4	13	6	38	266	84.3	47	258	5.5	1	7	1
2007	Washington Redskins	13	13	250	417	60.0	2,700	6.5	12	11	21	110	77.6	36	185	5.1	1	13	8
2006	Washington Redskins	7	7	110	207	53.1	1,297	6.3	10	6	7	55	76.5	24	107	4.5	0	1	0
2005	Washington Redskins	0	0	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	0.0	--	--	--	--	--	--
TOTAL				1,328	2,182	60.9	14,682	6.7	76	52	153	992	82.5	225	1,096	4.9	6	48	14

Cutler's career stats:

TOTAL

1,796

2,955

60.8

21,316

7.2

136

100

199

1,272

84.0

262

1,116

4.3

6

58

22

Originally Posted by jackiejokeman

You have anything in mind other than him ?



Cut his pay ... if he walks then fuck him. Gentlemem what are the alternatives out there ? I need answers. Ric didnt e-mail me my meds.

Well as totally insane as you CAN be at moments these are very sane questions and I'd like answers too so maybe Ric can double up on that med order and send us each some. I'm certainly ready to listen to alternatives that make sense and I don't consider rookie or inexperienced vet #2 prospects as making a whole lot of sense in this case.

Furthermore it doesn't seem that Phil Emery does either or he would have just kept McCown around for about $1 mil last year instead of paying Campbell $3.5 mil and actually we ended up paying both. So last years insurance premium for backup QB protection totaled about $4.5 mil and I'm thinking we should try to about halve that this year and see if we can get Campbell to play for $2.0-$2.5 mil or so and see what Blanchard or another prospect has to offer as a developmental guy who's paid a minimum salary.

Who are these other prospects for a backup? Fitzy or Cassel surely aren't any better than Campbell and they got paid a whole lot more to suck for their teams than Campbell did for his. I have no problem with someone else but just like with any other position whoever you release needs to be replaced with someone who can do as well or better so once we have an idea of who that might be I'll evaluate that but until then Campbell's name probably stays up on the board until he signs here or elsewhere.

out of those 3, give me Cassel.

IMHO the only "vet backup QBs" worth much consideration this year were Moore (retained for $4/yr), Daniels (FA signee for $3/yr), and MAYBE Cassel (if cheap only, and that's a stretch). Fitz blows. Everyone else is trash. Unsurprisingly, JCam hasn't attracted any interest I know of even from QB hungry teams like Arizona & Buffalo. No surprise there. Wherever he ends up going, Bears or elsewhere, a substantial pay cut is in order. When you aren't young anymore and you play like ass the prior season, you take a pay cut or take a hike. That's the way it goes.

We all know that Blanchard will be the #3 unless (unlikely both ways) he lights it up in PS or is supplanted by a draft pick. He may spend another year on the practice squad too since there seems little danger that another team would sign him away to their regular roster. So who's #2. I'll take Campbell back for $2 mill tops. O/w McCown/Blanchard for < $1 million.

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Jackie I'm on record as saying stay young w/the backup. They are just as likely to cost you games as the 'vet' backup, and they cost you a fraction of the cap. Reality is your backup, regardless of who they are, is not likely to win games if the starter goes down. And SB caliber teams rarely put any substantial money into a "top vet backup qb". Most don't even have "vet backups" they have young guys that have really not played much. The ones that do have former starters are paying them next to nothing, well under 2-4-8 mil a year, normally sub 1mil.

If Soul was accurate that campbell was nfl caliber, he'd be on a team starting right now, b/c 1/3's of NFL teams need a legit NFL qb. Also fact is stat's can lie, same w/Cambell's stat line. If those stats make him a nfl caliber qb, then KO is a nfl qb. 14K yards, 81 t 75 td/int's, 58.7 passing %(slightly lower not enough to make a dff), qbr 79.7(slightly lower, not enough to make a diff), avg pr pass 6.6. You want KO out there trying to win games and keep you in the playoff hunt?

Anyone that thinks Campbell is capable

Ric I think my point was that he is capable and his career stats bear that out don't they? Or are you gonna ignore those because they don't coincide with your OPINION of him. It's great to have your own opinion but maybe you should base it on fact not fantasy. The guys has played on some God awful teams before he came to Chicago and yet his stats are little worse than Cutler's if at all and he's won his share of games even playing for crappy teams. Judging him on the basis of just last years performance is like trying to rearrange a room just looking through a keyhole. It kind of lacks of seeing the big picture but you are good at that aren't you?

Personally I think you're prejudiced but since I can't prove that today I'll just leave it at saying that my OPINION!

Just because he's not the first QB signed in FA doesn't necessarily mean he has no value but it does mean other rated ahead of him and I would have been glad to get one of them for what we paid Campbell but that didn't happen and those guys got just as much or more so your theory about going cheaper with one of those guys kinda got shot down didn't it? Are you ready to admit that it's not as easy to find a young QB with a couple of year NFL experience as it seems or are you gonna stick with that too in the face of FACTS that contradict you. It's not that your idea is wrong but in reality it's much harder to pull off than you're ever willing to admit. Like I said you're a "don't confuse me with facts my minds made up" type so I'm not gonna even try to convince you otherwise. It's a waste of time when you won't even look at the FACTS.

In the final analysis I really don't care who it is just as long as he can get the job done. I have no deep attachment to Campbell. But if I'm interpreting Emery and Trestman correctly they do while you seem to be ignoring that. If they had no interest in bringing him back at all why would there be talk that they are interested and why haven't they told him that he's not wanted like they have with a few others? My guess is that just like most of the other Bears UFAs they're allowing the market to set his value and if the price is right he's as good a choice as anyone else out there. Who do you see as being any better....tell me.....and can you get him for what they can afford to pay? Cassel and Fitz are both younger and made a hell of a lot more to suck last year than Campbell did. As far as sucking goes he was a bargain.

I really don't think you get it. My opinion isn't about what I think they should do it's all about what I believe they think they should or will do. If Emery is content with a lesser #2 then we can probably bring back Caleb Hanie. The Broncos released him yesterday. Or we can go it with McCown and that may happen if he and Trestman think they can live with that. But he had that opportunity last year and didn't take it. He wanted a more experienced guy so he got him and I haven't seen anything yet that's telling me he's changed his mind about going about it that way. I keep looking for it but I haven't seen it yet.

If he can find a better prospect for a #2 than Campbell for a cap number he can live with I'm all for it. I'm not married to the idea of keeping Campbell I'm simply saying that Emery's pattern has not been to entrust the backup spot behind a starter who frequently misses games to an inexperienced QB he doesn't believe can win games. That's it in a nutshell. I really don't care if he re-signs Campbell or someone else because I hope we don't need him. Campbell isn't the ultimate solution in my opinion either but to claim that Campbell is not an NFL caliber QB is ridiculous. His track record says otherwise.

No his stats don't prove it. Neither do Orton's, and both are VERY similar vet qb's have only proven they are not worth keeping; hense why they were not kept by their team and would still be starting.
Our opinions differ in that I dont see a reason to waste precious cap on a guy that has proven he cannot play well enough to be a starter and therefore cannot be trusted to start if the starter goes down, and you think that experience somehow makes him better then a guy w/no experience who hasn't proven he can or cannot play well.
Theoretically you are correct, but it's wrong in practice. JC and Orton are considered "backup quality qb's" but the reallity is that they have only proven that they cannot be trusted to start for a team and help them win, again if they were they would be starting somewhere. And if you don't have someone w/the potential to start and win then you don't have a backup qb that should be on your team.
Now the inexperience mid-late round qb is probably going to fail just as bad as guys like JC and KO, maybe worse; BUT that is an unknown factor AND they don't hurt your cap space, they COULD also end up being a valuable asset(see Flynn/Cousins/TJ Yates/Cassle/Kolb etc) all of which for a short while proved they could help their team win(even if it wasn't long term). So while the "vet qb" is expesnsive and a proven fail, the inexperienced guy is cheap and unknown/probable fail.

We can go over this all day and for years, they are two different and legit strategies that teams use, it's a mere difference of oppinion and neither of us are going to relent. Let's call it a day and be koser about the fact that neither of us have a say, and it's all just fun bs for a couple fan boys on a msg board.