http://www.infragard.net/
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/15740prs20040809.html

The FBI Deputizes Business

Brophy,

Lippard beat this all to hell back when the article first came out. Once you get the tin foil hat off your head, go ahead and read this. Plus, let's not realllllllllllly get into a "private" organization that has it's very own public website, as well as what...23,000 members. Hell, it's hard to keep a secret when 10 people are involved, much less anything more than that. As well as the "special benefits" emergency cards are available to EVERYONE who applies and qualifies. When I was in Hawaii I had a GETS, and I have absoultely NOTHING to do with the FBI, unless it does indeed stand for "Female Body Inspector" But, we'll let Lippard discuss the obvious stupidity of Rothschild. However, I would like to point out.... just because ROTHSCHILD rides to work on a short yellow bus, doesn't mean that some of the issues he is concerned about aren't valid or couldn't be. There is a lot of wiggle room here, but Rothstard just flat out lying and making shit up, certainly isn't going to bring him any credibility when he does manage to discuss some valid issue.

The Lippard Blog

http://lippard.blogspot.com/2008/02/tinfoi...-fear.html'

An article in The Progressive by Matthew Rothschild worries that the FBI's InfraGard program is deputizing businesses, training them for martial law, and giving them a free pass to "shoot to kill." Rothschild writes:

The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does—and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to "shoot to kill" in the event of martial law.

Nonsense. I've been a member of the Phoenix InfraGard Members Alliance for years. It's a 501©(3) organization sponsored by the FBI whose members have been subjected to some rudimentary screening (comparable to what a non-cleared employee of the federal government would get). Most InfraGard meetings are open to the general public (contrary to Rothschild's statement that "InfraGard is not readily accessible to the general public"), but the organization facilitates communications between members about sensitive subjects like vulnerabilities in privately owned infrastructure and the changing landscape of threats. The FBI provides some reports of threat information to InfraGard members through a secure website, which is unclassified but potentially sensitive information. InfraGard members get no special "shoot to kill" or law enforcement powers of any kind--and membership in the organization is open to anyone who can pass the screening. As Rothschild notes in the first sentence of his article, there are over 23,000 members--that is a pretty large size for a conspiracy plot.

At one point in the article, Rothschild quotes InfraGard National Members Alliance chairman Phyllis Schneck referring to a "special telecommunications card that will enable your call to go through when others will not." This is referring to a GETS card, for the Government Emergency Telecommunications Service, which provides priority service for call completion in times of emergency or disaster to personnel who are working to support critical infrastructure. There is a similar service for wireless priority (Wireless Priority Service), and yet another for critical businesses and organizations (like hospitals) which need to have their telecommunications service re-established first after a loss of service due to disaster (Telecommunications Service Priority). These programs are government programs that are independent of InfraGard, though InfraGard has helped members who represent pieces of critical infrastructure obtain GETS cards.

The ACLU's concern about InfraGard being used as a tip line to turn businesses into spies is a more plausible but still, in my opinion, unfounded concern. Businesses are not under any pressure to provide information to InfraGard, other than normal reporting of criminal events to law enforcement. The only time I've been specifically asked to give information to InfraGard is when I've been asked to speak at a regular meeting, which I've done a few times in talks that have been open to the public about malware threats and botnets.

Check out the comments in The Progressive for some outright hysteria about fascism and martial law. I saw similar absurdity regarding the Department of Homeland Security's TOPOFF 4 exercise, which was a sensible emergency planning exercise. Some people apparently are unable to distinguish common-sense information sharing and planning in order to defend against genuine threats from the institution of a fascist dictatorship and martial law.

Now, I think there are plausible criticisms to be made of the federal government's use of non-governmental organizations--when they're used to sidestep laws and regulations like the Freedom of Information Act, to give lots of government grant money to organizations run by former government employees, to legally mandate funding of and reporting to private organizations and so forth. The FBI has created quite a few such organizations to do things like collect information about missing and exploited children, online crime, and so forth, typically staffed by former agents. But personally, I've not witnessed anything in InfraGard that has led me to have any concerns that it's being used to enlist private businesses into questionable activities--rather, it's been entirely devoted to sharing information that private businesses can use to shore up their own security and for law enforcement to prosecute criminals.

UPDATE (February 9, 2008): The irony is that Matthew Rothschild previously wrote, regarding 9/11 truthers:

We have enough proof that the Bush administration is a bunch of lying evildoers. We don't need to make it up.

He's right about that, but he's now helped spread nonsense about InfraGard and seriously damaged his own credibility. I find it interesting that people are so willing to conclude that InfraGard is a paramilitary organization, when it's actually an educational and information sharing organization that has no enforcement or even emergency, disaster, or incident response function (though certainly some of its members have emergency, disaster, and incident response functions for the organizations they work for).

UPDATE (February 10, 2008): I suspect tomorrow Christine Moerke of Alliant Energy will be getting calls from reporters asking what specifically she confirmed. I hope they ask for details about the conference in question, whether it was run by InfraGard or DHS, what the subject matter was, and who said what. If there's actually an InfraGard chapter endorsing the idea that InfraGard members form armed citizen patrols authorized to use deadly force in time of martial law, that's a chapter that needs to have its leadership removed. My suspicion, though, is that some statements about protection of infrastructure by their own security forces in times of disaster or emergency have been misconstrued. Alliant Energy operates nuclear plants, nuclear plants do have armed guards, and in Arizona, ARS 13-4903 describes the circumstances under which nuclear plant security officers are authorized to use deadly force. Those people, however, are thoroughly trained and regularly tested regarding the use of force and the use of deadly force in particular, which is not the case for InfraGard members.

UPDATE (February 11, 2008): Somehow, above, I neglected to make the most obvious point--that the FBI doesn't have the authority to grant immunity to prosecution for killing. If anyone from the FBI made that statement to InfraGard members, they were saying something that they have no authority to deliver on.

UPDATE (February 12, 2008): I've struck out part of the above about the ACLU's concern about spying being unfounded, as I think that's too strong of a denial. There is a potential slippery slope here. The 9/11 Commission Report pointed to various communication problems that led to the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks. These problems included failure to share information (mainly from the CIA to the FBI and INS), failure to communicate information within the FBI (like Phoenix Special Agent Ken Williams' memo about suspicious Middle Easterners in flight schools), and failure to have enough resources to translate NSA intercepts (some specific chatter about the attacks was translated after the attacks had already occurred). As a result, the CIA has been working closely with the FBI on counterterrorism and counterintelligence at least since 2001. (Also see Dana Priest, "CIA Is Expanding Domestic Operations," The Washington Post, October 23, 2002, p. A02, which is no longer available on the Post's site but can be found elsewhere on the web, on sites whose other content is so nutty I refuse to link, as well as this January 2006 statement from FBI Director Robert Mueller on the InfraGard website, which includes the statement that "Today, the FBI and CIA are not only sharing information on a regular basis, we are exchanging employees and working together on cases every day.")

The slippery slope is this--the CIA is an organization which recruits and develops in its officers a sense of flexible ethics which has frequently resulted in incredible abuses, and which arguably has done more harm than good to U.S. interests. (My opinion on the CIA may be found in my posts on this blog labeled "CIA"; I highly recommend Tim Weiner's Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA.) Some of that ethical flexibility may well rub off on FBI agents who work closely with CIA case officers. (The FBI itself has also had a history of serious abuses, an objective account of which may be found in Ronald Kessler's book The Bureau: The Secret History of the FBI.) And then, that same ethical flexibility may rub off on InfraGard members as a result of their relationships with the FBI (and potentially relationships with the CIA, as well). The intelligence community seems to have a hunger for more and more information from more and more sources, but it is already awash in a sea of information that it has trouble processing today. (It doesn't help that the Army fires direly needed Arabic translators because they are gay.) The need is to accurately assess the information that it has, and ensure that bits and pieces aren't cherry-picked to produce desired conclusions, as well as ensure that information isn't sought or assembled to serve personal and political ends of particular interests rather than combatting genuine threats to the country and its citizens.

My recommendation is that all InfraGard members read Kessler's The Bureau, Weiner's Legacy of Ashes, and view the film that won the 2007 Academy Award for best foreign film, "The Lives of Others," to help innoculate them against such a slippery slope.

UPDATE: Amy Goodman interviewed Matt Rothschild for "Democracy Now!" on Wisconsin Public Television, in which it is pretty clear to me that Rothschild is exaggerating something he doesn't understand--what he cites as evidence doesn't support what he claims. Here's a key excerpt, see the link for the full transcript:

MR: [...] And one other member of InfraGard [Christine Moerke of Alliant Energy] confirmed to me that she had actually been at meetings and participated in meetings where the discussion of lethal force came up, as far as what businesspeople are entitled to do in times of an emergency to protect their little aspect of the infrastructure.
AG: But just to clarify, Matt Rothschild, who exactly is empowered to shoot to kill if martial law were declared? The business leaders themselves?
MR: The business leaders themselves were told, at least in this one meeting, that if there is martial law declared or if there's a time of an emergency, that members of InfraGard would have permission to protect—you know, whether it's the local utility or, you know, their computers or the financial sector, whatever aspect. Whatever aspect of the infrastructure they're involved with, they'd have permission to shoot to kill, to use lethal force to protect their aspect of the infrastructure, and they wouldn't be able to be prosecuted, they were told.
[...]
You know, this is a secretive organization. They're not supposed to talk to the press. You need to get vetted by the FBI before you can join it. They get almost daily information that the public doesn't get. And then they have these extraordinary, really astonishing powers being vested in them by FBI and Homeland Security, shoot-to-kill powers. I mean, this is scary stuff.
MR: The business leaders themselves were told, at least in this one meeting, that if there is martial law declared or if there's a time of an emergency, that members of InfraGard would have permission to protect—you know, whether it's the local utility or, you know, their computers or the financial sector, whatever aspect. Whatever aspect of the infrastructure they're involved with, they'd have permission to shoot to kill, to use lethal force to protect their aspect of the infrastructure, and they wouldn't be able to be prosecuted, they were told.

It looks to me like the following transformation has occurred:

1. At a DHS conference on emergency response, somebody asks if owners of critical pieces of infrastructure should be expected to use deadly force if necessary to protect it (e.g., a nuclear power plant).
2. Somebody at DHS answers yes. They may even add that in some cases the law provides specific justification for use of deadly force (as in the Arizona statute I cite above).
3. Matt turns that into a general right to "shoot-to-kill" in times of martial law by any InfraGard member.
4. The blogosphere turns that into roving citizen patrols unleashed on the nation as the Bush hit squad after declaration of martial law.

I don't see his key source--Christine Moerke--confirming anything beyond #1 and #2.

Note other exaggerations and contradictions--Rothschild claims that InfraGard is highly secretive and selective, yet has quickly grown to over 23,000 members and has multiple public websites. He fails to note that most InfraGard meetings are open to the general public, or that it has been discussed in many articles in the national press over the last decade. Rothschild speaks of "business leaders," which the blogosphere has turned into "CEOs," yet I suspect the most common "business leader" represented in InfraGard is an IT or physical security manager.

UPDATE (February 15, 2008): The FBI has issued an official response to Rothschild's Progressive article (PDF), which says, in part:

In short, the article's claims are patently false. For the record, the FBI has not deputized InfraGard, its members, businesses, or anything else in the program. The title, however catchy, is a complete fabrication. Moreover, InfraGard members have no extraordinary powers and have no greater right to "shoot to kill" than other civilians. The FBI encourages InfraGard members -- and all Americans -- to report crime and suspected terrorist activity to the appropriate authorities.

The FBI response also states that Rothschild has "refused even to identify when or where the claimed 'small meeting' occurred in which issues of martial law were discussed," and promises to follow up with further clarifying details if they get that information.

This post has been edited by Loki520: Jul 22 2008, 06:15 AM

just part of your friendly neighborhood police state! thanks to people like wolfman giving our freedoms away things are not going to get any better.

Not sure how you got Wolf on that end of the spectrum. Wolf, seems to me, one of the more Constitution based people when it comes to civil liberties.

wolfman is a communist threat to this countrys nation security and should be treated as a terrorist.

You’re a complete fucktard and ARE treated as such…

Now, now... You KNOW that Wolfman is not a communist threat. He's a member of the Illuminati and we know that they are NOT communist.

Loki, thanks for explaining this. It is appreciated.

I apologize for ever accusing YOU of needing tinfoil..... apparently, I had yet to pay attention.

is that all you got? in the old days wolfman your communist ass would of been set out in a second. now days people don't know any better because they have been dumb down in one of your communist controlled school system. they have been trained how to think from day one and can't form an opinion for them selfs with out someone telling them the way to think. this is why the globalist don't like the net and want to gain control over it. people can speak freely and other people can read what was said. this goes out side the control that they have over the populations opinion that they have formed with the major media and lets the people form an opinion that they have no control over.

the globalist hate that we can speak freely, the globalist hate that we can meat people that think the same and the globalist hate they we have united on the net to stand against them. the globalist have spent tons of money to gain control over public opinion with the major media. they will not stand by and let the internet wreck there plans of global domination.

there is a reason this country is fucked up right now and the government is out of control. your ideological line of thinking does not work with the ideology of freedom and a constitutionally ran government. your line of thinking keeps giving the government power they are not suppose to have and thats why our government is out of control. you have trusted people in our government that have sold their souls to the globalist and they have done every in there power to make sure you lose your freedom.

the constitution is a cage built to keep an animal under control. government can not be trusted to take care of you, thats been proven time and time again. people in our government have abused the power you gave them to give charity to the people and used it to gain power over the people. the constitution if obeyed does let you use your ideological line of thinking when working for the government. so there is no room for your ideological interpretation when it comes to the constitution, it should be read like a list of rules and it has no hidden meaning.

its like cherry said in another post absolute power corrupts absolutely! i definitely do not trust people like wolfman to look out for my best interest or my family. anyone that has to twist a meaning of a word can not be trusted. your ideological line of thinking has stolen enough of my hard earned money.

the net has allowed me to meet people that thinks as i do and now we have organized. we will be taking our government back from people like wolfman that has blindly handed it over to the globalist. its like the globalist bush said you either with use or against us. the line has been drawn in the sand and your either going to let them have what they want or they will take it.

so enjoy the net while it last because people like wolfman are ignorant enough to give freedom away.

God, I miss this place.

we're missing Mozart

Ride on Don Quixote, ride on…

This place hasn't been the same since he left.