50 Bears rookies arrived at Halas Hall today!

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, May 15, 2014.

  1. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    340
    Ratings:
    +374 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    60ß
    Definitely both teams had big losses, it's crazy that the Packers limped their way to the SB and won it. Really impressive. But I also think having arguably the top QB in the NFL helps with that.

    I don't like ref excuses but at one point I just gotta look back and wonder what anyone could have done working with that. Rather than injuries being the problem, I would venture to say this shows why Jerry Angelo can't be a GM.. depth is essential and you need players behind your starters who can come in and be respectable at the very least.. and we didn't have that. With the depth we're sporting now even a string of injuries wouldn't be a viable excuse if Tuckers unit was still bottom of the barrel. But last year? I don't blame Tucker for that. I've got my eye on him for sure, but I'm also giving him a clean slate. I don't think anyone in the NFL could have salvaged that defense when you look at the whole picture.

    He's got his own scheme and a big infusion of talent. If they don't perform this year then by all means ax him. But last year? To me, it was a wash as far as evaluating his coaching goes.
  2. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    Ratings:
    +1,912 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    Well whatever the reasons for the collapse, and there were many, Mel Tucker needs to prove himself capable of managing the Bears defense through thick and thin. I don't know of anyone who feels that injuries weren't a big part of the problem but my issue is elsewhere. We should have seen some improvement in the play of certain players as they became more accustomed to starting and we really didn't. It could have been the two position coaches who were let go or it could still be the scheme in general or the way it's taught. Right now we really don't know.

    I would have fired Mel Tucker if I was the Bears GM but he didn't and so, like many others, I'll take a wait and see attitude as far as his ability to turn things around. He seems to have the support of at least a few of his starters. Maybe it's not the same slavish devotion Lovie engendered but it's a start. The bottom line though is that the defensive leadership need to believe in him and his scheme and last year they didn't. As far as I can see those who weren't "buying in" are gone and notice has been served. Get on board or you're next.

    I'll be happy to reserve final judgement until later in the year. What other choice do I have? So I might just as well clear my brain of any prejudices and let it happen but I don't have to "buy in" completely until I see some results. Very few NFL coaches who turned in that kind of a performance would ever have kept their jobs but Tucker did so there must be something about him that made Trestman and Emery be willing to overlook last year. I don't consider either one of them incautious fools but let's not wait until the season is half way over and lost again to make a change if things don't work out. Tucker may deserve a second chance but not a third.
  3. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    340
    Ratings:
    +374 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    60ß
    Basically, I think that's what it boils down to.. he deserves a second chance but no one thinks he should/will get a third. I didn't really care for the Canadian league positional coaches at LB/DL so I'm glad that we've got some new guys in here who have experience at this level. I'm not touting Tucker as a man without faults. Merely suggesting we should realize last year was a shit show, and give him this year to showcase it. He could fail, I hope he succeeds. He's got the talent available to him, make it work.
  4. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,239
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Ratings:
    +1,254 / 2 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    300ß
    This ^^^^^ pretty much sums it up in "fair and balanced" fashion regarding the Tucker 2013 post-mortem IMO.
  5. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    Ratings:
    +1,912 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    Well Mike Phair the DL coach was Marinelli's assistant so he did have the requisite NFL experience and Lovie hired him after we let him go. I don't think anyone could have done much to help that line last year after losing both Melton and Collins and having Paea at about 60% most of the year. Ratliff came along too late to be of any real help.

    I'll accept the DL problems being caused by the injuries but I'm far less forgiving of the issues at LB and Safety. We did have an inexperienced LB coach and that's been fixed. We didn't retain Gil Byrd who was the Safety coach, not Hoke, so who replaced him? Tucker maybe? He was a Safety in college and a DB coach before becoming a DC.

    The real confusion last year we back there and injuries didn't cause that confusion. Pre-snap adjustments looked like a Chines Fire Drill with players looking every which way to try and figure out where they should be lined up and who there man was or what zone they were supposed to cover. This is what I have a real problem with because this wasn't about injuries this was about poor coaching and preparation.

    Still, most of the better players say Tucker's defensive calls were correct so for now I'll hang it on the player simply not "getting it". I think we've made enough changes and created enough competition for jobs that the overall talent and depth should be a whole lot better this year. He has the correct tools this time so now it's up to him to coach them into a good defensive unit.
  6. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    340
    Ratings:
    +374 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    60ß
    My mistake on Mike Phair but Lovie bringing anyone in doesn't make me believe they're great. He's buddy buddy with loads of guys and just because he signs them doesn't, to me, mean they're NFL quality. He also signed Major Wright. Building block to any safety tandem right there.

    DL problems exacerbate the LB problems, if the DL is that ravaged by injuries then the LB's are going to be manhandled by OL play after play. LB's need to make some plays but it's a hell of a lot harder when the DL falls apart like that. Even Urlacher struggled when the DL failed to hold up their end of the bargain.. even in his prime.

    I think the confusion can be attributed to us being spoiled with Lach, among other things. Briggs was talking about how much harder pre-snap alignments are than he had ever realized and then once he went down we had rookies taking over for that. It could be on Tucker, not saying it's not.. but there's also loads of other factors that contributed. It shouldn't have been as bad as it was but rookies trying to line people up is never going to bold well, especially when they weren't even meant to see the field. It's not like these were 1st rounders we had subbing in, Bostic and Greene were both designated for development and neither were afforded that luxury.

    I'll definitely take a players word over our observations. Tillman and Briggs, among others, seem to back him so I'm going to go with the people who actually play the game. Once again, it could be Tucker's fault.. but there were so many other contributing factors that I can't form an accurate opinion of anything going on last year. I give him a clean slate, and let him prove he's meant for the job this year when he has the talent and depth he needs. Even with injuries we have the depth so that it's not an excuse. He's no longer handicapped by someone elses scheme.. it's his show and now we'll see a real example of what he brings to the table.
  7. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    Ratings:
    +1,912 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    There is a lot to getting everyone lined up correctly and Briggs had no experience doing it at all. Unlike Urlacher and others I don't think Briggsy was ever a student of the game. He was in over his head and the rookies were in waaaaayyyy over theirs. That's something else Tucker needs to fix this year. Briggs isn't the guy who should be calling defensive signals. He's a great player but a lousy leader.

    I'm giving the young LBs some leeway here too. It would have been tough enough on them to start behind the good line but playing behind who they did made it all that much harder. Bostic is only in his second year and Shea is almost a rookie as far as LB goes so they both need to get up to speed quickly. Maybe DWill should be running the show on the field. He couldn't be any worse than Briggs was and in the middle he's in a better position to handle it.

    So if Tucker gets a pass then they all need a pass, Conte included. Last year it was like a line of Doninoes. Once you knocked the first one down it was like it set off a chain reaction and half the defense was either out or hurting badly enough to affect their play. But that all has to change. These guys need to know the scheme their playing before camp so hopefully Tucker has that mapped out before the OTAs next month and they can install it there.
  8. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    340
    Ratings:
    +374 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    60ß
    That's my favorite analogy of last year I've read, it was truly like an intricate and infuriating line of dominoes. You could backpedal and try to fix it but there was so many other things being effected it was like pouring buckets out of the Titanic, not going to make much difference. The ship sunk.

    I do give Conte a pass. Before last year he was an average guy (or in that ball-park) who we were hoping would make a jump. He's rangy as hell and has the tools to be a competent starter. I hope he can be an asset to this defense but if he's a liability it needs to be recognized and taken care of with the appropriate measures, like benching him or what have you. I think Conte needs to be held accountable and can't be off doing his own thing. I'm hoping this shoulder surgery improves his attitude at making tackles and maybe he needs to work out some more or something. He's still young. I'd love for him to come to camp and look great and then bring that to the season and provide us with a good-great ball player. We'll see. Time to get a read on what we're working with on defense.
  9. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,270
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Ratings:
    +1,642 / 6 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    908ß
    Anyone see any posts on any of the guys at camp? Wondering if anyone stood out.
  10. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,169
    Likes Received:
    2,138
    Ratings:
    +2,450 / 3 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    890ß
    [​IMG]


    He's a high-ceiling project. He's a dline guy.....doesn't it look like he's in his 3-point stance facing the wrong direction? Anyway, I'm gonna start my 2025 mock and he'll probably fall to us in the 3rd round. I think #7 needs to put on some weight. Those are toothpick legs......but he does look fast.
  11. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,270
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Ratings:
    +1,642 / 6 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    908ß
    All great points. Good scouting report, and also spot on with the anticpation. In the majors, they generally like to see you come out of your stance before the ball gets into the end zone. I think that's Mel out there. Probably just a comminucations issue.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    159
    Ratings:
    +204 / 2 / -1
    ßearz ßuckz:
    409ß
    Can these kids beat Seattle or Denver?

    SIGN EM !

    Oh sure these kids can be SMALL to play for DAA BEARRSSE ...

    but what abot QUALITY and CHARACTOR issues?

    Some of these kids have been known to use crayons in illegal ways ...

    I dunno ... would Cliff Stein sign any of them to a long term contract?
    • Like Like x 1
  13. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    Ratings:
    +1,912 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    Jackie's posting some in his "This n That" thread. Let's keep 'em there just to make it easier.
  14. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    572
    Ratings:
    +763 / 4 / -1
    ßearz ßuckz:
    753ß
    So if a team has strong starters with no depth is that a good team?
  15. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    340
    Ratings:
    +374 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    60ß
    Probably could be a good team but doesn't have what it takes to be a great team, in my opinion. I feel like if you want to succeed in the NFL you need quality depth behind your star players. It can't go from HoF potential like Lach to a guy who makes his living on special teams. There's a place for special teamers but it shouldn't go from starter quality to life ST guy across the board. The disparity in talent should be closer than that. Injuries are a part of the game and if you don't have anything behind your starters your team will suffer greatly the moment they leave the field. Even more than guys who can be respectable when your stars go down you want to groom guys who can take over for those starters down the road.

    That's just my opinion and of course it's easy to be an arm-chair GM but I think having quality depth is integral to having a well rounded team that's capable of rolling with the punches with injuries come.. and they will come. Look at the only team to go undefeated, they were three deep in super stars at multiple positions. Obviously with the way the league is today it's not possible to do that at every position, but you should strive for quality players in all roles if you ask me. You don't want someone coming in who you know is going to be a huge liability.
  16. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,169
    Likes Received:
    2,138
    Ratings:
    +2,450 / 3 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    890ß
    +1
    Injuries are a way of life in the modern NFL. The athletes are bigger and faster. The velocity of these impacts are greater. The explosiveness of movement with athletes (the size of these guys is beyond what we could even imagine 30-40 years ago) put greater stresses on knees, tendons & ligaments. The human body wasn't designed for this - not at this level. So teams have KEY injuries EVERY season now. Quarterbacks drop like flies no matter how we change the rules to protect them. And the rules dictate that players who in past years would have kept playing after concussions, now often miss multiple games. You roll all of this together and you see that a championship quality team HAS to have stellar depth. It's not a "nice to have" but a must have.

    Otherwise, a team is just a championship quality team in September. After that it's just a pretender. Injuries eat your season alive if you don't have good depth players. I think Emery is building us better depth. It's just been a longer-term battle for him since Jerry Angelo left him an empty cupboard to restock.

Share This Page