All right, cut the god ***** bull****, seriously.

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by Henry Burris, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    I know everyone's upset that Jay is injured, and hasn't been playing lights out this year, but seriously, there's a LOT of opinions I read here, from friends and the media, that are just not well thought out. I'm not trying to troll this half of the board by giving my pointed opinions, but somebody's gotta say it:

    1. If you say Josh McCown should be the starter over a healthy Jay Cutler, you aren't winning any points for credibility.
    2. If you think McCown could/should be a starter for either this team, or anywhere else in the NFL, you don't come across as intelligent, seeing as McCown is 34, throws softballs(mark my words, he will have a multiple INT game) and....He's *********** 34 people, and he can't throw a ball half as hard or accurately as Jay Cutler. What kind of idiot coach would look at his performance this year and say "Oh wow, **** drafting a QB this year, this dude could be a starter for us!!"?
    3. If you think Jay needs to "move on" after this season, you're basically saying a GM as smart as Emery, and a HC as smart as Trestman are going to say "Well, the offense looked pretty good this year, our wide receivers are the best combination in the league, but, I think going with an untested rookie/career backup would increase our chances of winning over what Jay could do for us", then may god have mercy on your poor, confused soul.
    4. You think after that, given how bad the D is this year, as a result of age and injuries, that bringing in another QB to take the job away from Cutler is going to somehow fix ANYTHING, you're sooooooooooooooooooooo wrong.
    5. You think that "we can save money" by letting Cutler walk away, to allow more spending on defense, you're missing the fact that many of our free agents aren't going to be nearly as expensive as they would be normally, AND that there won't be enough FA's to sign to the defense to offset the loss the offense would feel. That just doesn't make any sense.
    6. Even if we spent a high draft pick on a QB, so what? RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Jake Locker, and Colin Kaepernick are just a few of the recent high draft pick QB's that just aren't doing well this year. What that means is, Cutler > young QB. I think it would be great to bring in a rookie to compete for the job with Jay, but, just because so many rookie QB's have good seasons of late doesn't mean that they can turn their offenses elite. In fact, going with what I've said earlier, this would probably cost some people their jobs to immediately change an offense so quickly, and try to duplicate the point total from this year, because it ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN WITH ANYONE NOT NAMED JAY CUTLER. Not anytime soon, and Emery and Trestman need a few years of sustained improvement to even guarantee they have jobs in a few years. Why on earth, would you think turning it over to a 34 year old, or an untested rookie would benefit them in any way, next year?
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  2. WarLax

    WarLax Rookie

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    Post this......EVERYWHERE. Please, else I may just wind up doing this to my computer when I try to read Bears forums::3_8_14[1]:
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  3. little bear

    little bear Assistant Head Coach

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    Post of the week.
  4. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I agree...Cutler isn't going anywhere this offseason and McCown is a BACKUP ONLY (good one, but that's it).

    Any QB we draft (and we should) will be a developmental prospect not an "instant starter". We need high picks for DEFENSE so 3rd-4th round for QB is fine by me. No higher than 3rd unless Emery is absolutely convinced there's a "can't pass up" prospect there. In fact, there better be a damn good reason to draft anything other than DEFENSE-DEFENSE in 1 and 2. And that reason better be way way more persuasive than Shea 2.0

    The only question remaining for me in Cutler's last games is whether Emery will take the plunge on a multi-year contract or use the FT. I hope he goes the FT route and devotes 90% of the rest of his offseason attention to the defense. We can re-visit the Cutler issue in early 2015 after another season in the TCO under his belt to analyze.
  5. CaptainHookShot

    CaptainHookShot Rookie

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    1. I'm not sure how many people come to a forum that goes by dabears.com to win credibility points. You might be one. I am not.
    2. I don't think anybody sees McCown as a long term solution. I just don't see Jay Cutler as one either. Sue me. McCown has earned the starter role, not only because of his play and that we beat green bay in green bay and that had he been starting in the last game we would have won, but because he was prepared and ready for any situation he's been thrown into.
    3. Jay doesn't need to 'move on.' He just needs to understand that he isn't gonna get the big $ until he shows enough consistency and longevity to be the franchise quarterback. He will be 31 at the start of the next season. Time is running out. He was a total dumbass about playing last week and his performance or lack thereof pushed playoff hopes into a tight corner. Ask yourself this: Is Jay Cutler going to take the Bears to the playoffs this year? He's wearing a ******* cast on his ankle and tore his groin 4 weeks ago.
    4. As discussed here on multiple occasions-Cutler was not capable of keeping the defense off the field for more than two minutes at a time. Are some of those injuries the result of being on the field for three straight quarters for multiple games in a row?
    5. If we can't spend the money on defense then let's spend more on offense. Another lineman would be great. We could always use another tightend.
    6. Okay, you picked out four guys who are having poor to decent seasons(for a variety of reasons) and then you immediately went to Cutler>young qb. First off, when Jay Cutler has a bad season it's never his fault-it's the oline, it's the o coordinator, he doesn't have any receivers etc. etc. etc....but we'll get past that-I don't know why those guys are having bad seasons, I know Locker is garbage, I'm pretty sure RGIII just came back from a serious injury. Really, you think Cutler is better than Kaepernick? You think Cutler has more potential? Okay, have you ever heard of Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Matt Stafford, Alex Smith-because those are high draft picks that are killing it this year. What about Russell Wilson?

    In the end, turning it over to McCown didn't come down to any decision. The reality is Cutler is injured and CAN'T play. Sounds like a familiar story. So tell me again why Cutler should get all the snaps with the starting unit three weeks off a groin tear? Or why we shouldn't be investing time and money somewhere else so our season doesn't run down the tubes like it does every year?
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  6. mdbearz

    mdbearz Veteran

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    McCown is better than Ponder, Gabbert, Matt Cassel, Brandon Weedon, Josh Freeman, but it is absurd to think that he could start in the NFL?

    I agree with 99% of what you have said.
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  7. CaptainHookShot

    CaptainHookShot Rookie

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    I get that Cutler is stuck/was stuck in the damned if he does damned if he doesn't media bs. It sucks. But at the end of the day he's a young multimillionaire bangin a hot reality tv byatch. I won't feel sorry for him. I will be happy when a guy like McCown comes off the high school football staff and beats the Packers on Monday Night Football and I won't be ashamed of it. I love the underdog. I loved Kurt Warner. I love Tom Brady. Both awesome stories and awesome players. I'll buy into that shit way before I buy into the ol' gunslinger bs. Also, comparing Cutler to Favre was a slight to Brett Favre.
  8. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Going off your logic, we should....the Bears should...um........It sounds like you want lower quality players playing for the Bears. I mean, going by your standard of "underdog winning is better than a 1st round pick", then J'Marcus Webb having the amount of success he has had in the NFL is significantly better than Kyle Long's success so far.
  9. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    So, you don't care that no one thinks you have credibility, yet here we are with a LONG counter argument to OP
    What you are saying is, because Josh McCown had a full week to practice, unlike Seneca Wallace, he's better than Cutler...."prepared and ready for any situation he's been thrown into", implying that Cutler doesn't prepare himself? If so, then...wow
    Dude, Peyton Manning suffered a similar ankle injury, and played JUST as bad as Jay did in HIS second half against the Chargers. So, Jay Cutler deserves blame for this team not going to the playoffs, because he is injured? Sweet, that means Aaron Rodgers sucks too, and Peyton Manning was responsible for the Colts going 2-14 a few years back.
    Surprisingly, I tepidly agree with you here.
    The reason why we won't be able to spend much money on defensive free agents is............................................SOME of these defensive players HAVE to come back, because building through Free Agency has been proven repeatedly to NOT work for championship teams, AND many of the players that WOULD help us more than those on our current roster will cost much, much more. While you'll find no disagreement on us needing another center to replace Garza in the near future, you're not going to find it via free agency. Also, Emery's NOT going to sign a top flight TE in free agency, so we'll either have to hope he finds a scrub that overplays next year, or draft one.

    Um, Alex Smith has been in the league longer than Cutler, so WHERE you're going with that, I don't know. I refuse to comment on you bringing up RGIII other than to say, in your first sentence, you're ripping Cutler for "excuses" that haven't been made this year at all, and then you follow that up with an excuse for RGIII's bad play; choose one or the other. Am I saying Cutler is better than Kaepernick? Well, should we compare stats? I think we should:


    63.0%
    1,908 yards passing
    13 TDs
    8 INTs
    88.4 rating

    56.4%
    1,675 yards passing
    9
    TD 6 INTs
    83.0 rating

    Take a guess as to which set of stats belong to whom.

    Now, I can tell you didn't understand what I said in my previous post, so I'll explain it VERY CLEARLY: people are clamoring for a high draft pick to replace Cutler. LOOKING AROUND THE LEAGUE AT YOUNG QB's(Andrew Luck doesn't count, because he's a once in a generation prospect), many of them aren't holding up very well in their second year starting. Hell, many of them weren't even good their first year, so, going by the standard of young quarterbacks as starters in this league, Jay Cutler is a better option than all of them. Also, Cam Newton has been in the league for 3 years now. He also had a pretty bad sophomore slump, so that's only helping my argument. That's not even to mention that he and Jay have VERY similar stats this season, even though Jay has played considerably less football than Newton. That you brought Matthew Stafford and Alex Smith into your argument belies your understanding of the point I was making in the OP

    1. Jay Cutler fought his ass off to take HALF of his healing time down, and STILL played better than Stafford for most of the game.
    2. Investing time and money, how?
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  10. CaptainHookShot

    CaptainHookShot Rookie

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    I'll go back over these point by point with you and then I am done.
    1. We are interacting on a fan forum and both of us are using pseudonyms. Credibility? To who? To what? An avatar? Doesn't mean I can't come on here and root for the Bears however I damn well like.
    2. You made the implication Cutler isn't prepared. I merely said that McCown was not just collecting a paycheck as a backup and was ready to get in there and get the job done. As of right now he should be taken seriously because the reality is that the whole season is hanging on his shoulders. But while we're on the 'Jay Cutler not being prepared,' I'll stoke your anger some more: Jay Cutler was not prepared for last week. He rushed his recovery with semi experimental procedures and it showed.
    3. Comparing Jay Cutler to Peyton Manning is hilarious. Aaron Rodgers even better. Are you saying Cutler should have been playing last week? Because you might be the only one in the universe, oh wait, there's one more: Jay Cutler
    4.-
    5. Martellus Bennet is a top flight TE. Brandon Marshall is a top flight WR. We drafted those guys right? I agree with you that we need great homegrown talent but awesome players hit FA all the time,...and when we won't be tied up in peppers and cutler we'll be able to go after them.
    6. You are right, Alex Smith has been in the league longer than Cutler. You're missing Kaepernick's rushing stats but that's irrelevant because he doesn't have a groin tear. Maybe it's because he can actually run.
    So your point was that nobody except Jay Cutler could duplicate the point total next year. Is that why you love Jay so much?
    Some Cutler stats:
    TD: 149
    INT: 108
    FUM: 35
    rating: 88.4
    1:1 td to ratio. Who gives a flying @#$% about point totals
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  11. JPosh2012

    JPosh2012 Pro-Bowler

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    Excellent post Henry! While yes would I take a healthy McCown over a not 100% Cutler? Yes but do I want McCown starting when we have a 100% Cutler? HELL NO!
  12. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

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    Hey we got swept by Deeetroit now that Green Bay is not the worst enemy and get over it.

    I dont what is going to happen and thats why I tune into this shit ... to find out whats going to happen next.

    Man If I had a baromometer in predicting BEARS games it would look like a seismic meter ... predicting earthquakes after they happened.

    I dont know what the fuck is going to happen ... this is the NFL ... they park 32 teams and ask you to guess.

    I hope ours turns out the best ... maybe sombody goes apeshit with Baltimore and really stands out .

    I dont know. I know what Id like ... but I dont know.
  13. kevperro

    kevperro Veteran

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    Nobody is anointing McCown as the next coming but in his limited time on the field there is no question that he has outperformed Jay this year. His saving grace is that he hasn't turned the ball over while Cutler has.

    I realize it is a limited body of work but the bigger question to me isn't Jay vs. McCown. It is investing long term in Cutler vs. pursuing other long-term options in this draft class, deep with QB talent. To answer that question you have to look into your crystal ball and determine if Jay has the ability to improve his decision making. I'm putting my "credibility" at stake and saying his chances of improving enough to change our SB odds are slim. He is what you see. You have a big enough body of work to know what you are getting. What he has shown isn't good enough to win us a Superbowl and with that... I'd gamble looking for someone who can.
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  14. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

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    Kevperro,

    This is like a 3 part play ... I want to see how its going to end.
  15. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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  16. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Kevperro, I agree that is as good a position as any. None of us know how Cutler will progress the rest of the year (or even how many more games he will play), who will be available, what any future QB injuries (or healing issues might be) etc.

    If we knew the answer to some of those questions, it would help narrow some options. We also don't know if Emery and Trestman have already made a decision based on what they have already seen. Anyone saying to either keep Cutler for sure or cut him for sure and everyone else is wrong is being short sighted. While there is a 50-50 chance that one is right, there is no way to know at this point what the right course of action is.

    Cutler has progressed. He still makes judgement errors. Which one of those does one project will continue and be the primary trend? And on what basis can one make those claims for sure? IMO, right now it's a fools bet. You can make a good argument either way. If I had to read the tea leaves I would say Cutler stays because the guys making the decisions seem high on him, but again, what else would they say at this point. Plus, he is a known commodity and Trestman does have a way of seasoning QB's. BUT, if whoever they have as THEIR #1 QB in the draft is still available, does that change the calculus? As I said before, just too many moving parts right now.

    I think Cutler stays, but I am not saying anyone who disagrees is wrong. I just don't get people that represent speculation or opinion as fact (it's not a fact until it happens) and further pronounce anyone that disagrees as wrong. There has not been too much of that on this board in the past, but I guess everything changes....
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  17. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    1. You're still giving your opinion, no? You're defending your opinion, no? Obviously you WANT validation as much as anyone else does, for your opinion.
    2. BACKTRACK city. "Josh McCown has earned the starting job" to "He's not a bad backup, and can play well when called upon". You obviously STILL haven't grasped any opinion that runs contrary to your own, because: A) Jay was injured IN THE GAME, and it wasn't his groin injury B) "semi experimental procedures"? What are you basing that off of?
    3. The only other people in Jay Cutler and my universe? Professional Doctors who cleared him for the game. His groin is fine, he was injured during the Lions game, just as Peyton Manning was against the Chargers, and it showed for BOTH players. Peyton was lucky because ALL of his points were scored BEFORE his injury.
    4. -
    5. Now, this one I probably should've been more explicit about, because I clearly wasn't. Emery is a genius for getting the players he did, at the discounts he got. However, FA can't be relied upon for more than 1-2 game changers per offseason. Looking at many of the players that might be available this offseason, it just doesn't make sense to lose Cutler, just to try to fix the rest of the team. Just off of his 2 offseasons as GM, he seems to be more like the Saints, rather than the Packers, in how they view free agency (Saints lost their #1 WR, and replaced him with another, while the Packers replaced their center with a guy that should have retired a year previous), and that's a good thing. TL;DR Using FA to supplement the draft, vs using FA as a last resort or as the ONLY resort is the way to go(The Patriots, in the early part of the last decade, are the blueprint for FA success; in fact, you could easily compare Corey Dillon's arrival as their offenses' turnaround, to Brandon Marshall's, and they both were elite players that were traded at a low price)
    6. Again, you're missing the point. All of these rookie and second year players, regardless of whatever is ailing them, aren't any better than Cutler. I'm not going any further into your use of stats, because that will only sidetrack what we're talking about. You STILL don't understand that I was ONLY comparing Cutler to 1st and 2nd year players. The only 2nd year players that are playing lights out are Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson, Luck's talent being far superior to any first round QB in the past decade, and Wilson, who everybody passed on because he was short.

    To go further into the QB discussion: whatever you think about Jay Cutler, he IS our best chance to win next year, and, to think a rookie is going to do better, is playing against the odds.

    But, since you don't want Jay Cutler to be our QB going forward, let me ask you this: have you noticed that a LOT of mechanics have improved with Trestman? If not, I'll remind you that Cutler was ***** putrid under the long string of horrible offensive coordinators he's had(If you're going to say that is an excuse, then explain why Alex Smith has performed better when he finally got a head coach that knows offense, AND another HC that has been around the league for a while, and knows offense even better), with throwing off of his back foot and locking onto one receiver last year, but those "mechanical problems" are NOT a concern this year. The problem with his play this year, which has REALLY shown with McCown in, is that he's overly aggressive when moving the ball. I don't mean this in any argumentative way, but do you think that the progression from last year to this year is a sign that Trestman could focus on the few problems left in his game this offseason? No one here is advocating signing Cutler to the ridiculous contracts that Flacco or Romo got, but, as SWC pointed out a while back, you're NOT going to get any consistency when your HC finally got the QB back on the right track, just to replace him with someone else. The 49ers, I'm sure, regret the decision you're advocating the Bears make, but they had a QB they were grooming as his replacement, while the Bears don't have a backup that could keep this team competitive in the long haul.
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  18. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    I agree with you, but people are forgetting that Cutler was actually at 100% to start against the Lions, as his ankle injury didn't occur until later in the game

    We don't HAVE to invest in Cutler long term, not yet. As I've said elsewhere, there are a LOT of teams that will be drafting for a QB, that pick ahead of us: TB, Minnesota, Arizona, Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, and Tennessee, so our prospects for a first round QB aren't realistic.
  19. Jimmors

    Jimmors The Rhymenoceros Staff Member SuperFan

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    You miss the point, HB. Its not that we dont want Jay back, its just that he hasnt earned that huge Flacco deal. Jay is getting older, and more injured with time. He's had like only one season with the Bears iirc where he played all 16 games.

    Which is why they will most likely FT him this off season. Let him earn that huge contract (or not) next season.
  20. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    You're picking a point to argue that I've never even made. I've repeatedly said to FT him, and draft a backup to fight him for the starter job. The people that this thread is directed towards are the ones who think this team will improve next year, without Cutler.

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