Bears Defense; Lack of Talent or Poor Coaching?..............

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by soulman, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    And by the way...there is evidence that he might play free safety better out there...it's just his 40 time isn't one of them.
  2. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    I don't disagree about the importance of the D-line. We are just talking about the trade-off between Houston/Young and Conte/Bethea. Speed is the prime requisite of a FS to be able to help on deep coverage. Conte is pathetic. Bethea is 2-time All-Pro at SS. He would also be exponentially better than Conte on run support, which is Conte's other big weakness.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  3. Warlock

    Warlock Veteran

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    In a simplistic sense, his statement rings true more often than not. How do you think the players get better at those fundamental aspects of the sport (i.e. blocking and tackling)? The answer is proper coaching and lots of repetition to hone the neuro-muscular coordination of the movements.

    Coaching and Coordinating get lumped together a lot, because at most levels you don't have huge staffs and guys tend to wear multiple hats... they do very different jobs though. A Coach prepares the players to execute the plays and a Coordinator prepares the plays for the players to execute. For example, the staff will meet and breakdown their next opponent's gamefilm. The Coordinators will then create a gameplan, based on what is seen. This gameplan will then be implemented in the upcoming week's practice (i.e. specific plays to focus on, personnel packages, adjustments to scheme, etc...). The positional Coaches will be responsible for getting players prepared for the gameplan.

    What your friend is referring to is Coordinating, not Coaching.
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  4. short faced bear

    short faced bear Assistant Head Coach DBS Writer

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    Jesus, let's just get the season started already. When it's dead like this the board looks like it starts to cannibalize itself with threads like this. And can we please drop the whole "coach" thing already? I have ZERO idea who used to be a coach, player, manager, ball boy on this board or who isn't.

    This board wouldn't exist w/o conjecture. That is what makes it fun and diverse.
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  5. jbunch14

    jbunch14 Veteran

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    Completely agree. It's like watching a square-dance, with all of the circuitous arguments bouncing between partners. Only a few more days, and we will finally have something legitimate to agonize over!!
  6. GermansbombedPH

    GermansbombedPH Pro-Bowler

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    I like how fast Emery upgraded the WR spot. 1 year later it was the OL. This year it was the DL.

    He finally is going to have the time to do something about the safteys next year. Jennings & Fuller will be good starting CBs - maybe even Tillman too in a year.
  7. 4th and 26

    4th and 26 George Halas Staff Member

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    How many Jerry Anglo draft picks are still left from that era? Second, preseason games mean jack and players are not going to put 100% into games.
  8. GermansbombedPH

    GermansbombedPH Pro-Bowler

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    Jennings
    Tillman
    Paea
    Conte
    Briggs

    thats all that's left from Jerry? Did I miss somebody
  9. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    Defense, I think that covers it
  10. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    Was technically drafted by the Colts 2nd round 2006.
  11. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    How does one get better at blocking and tackling if not the coaches? It is a chicken and egg thing.
  12. Warlock

    Warlock Veteran

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    No, no it isn't. People call football a game of Physics for a reason... the techniques are based on principles of Physics... used to make the actions more efficient/effective (in terms of the energy used and the output of force generated, amoung other things). Players are taught these techniques and perform them repetitiously, in order to develop the nuero-muscular coordination to perform said actions in the most efficient/effective way possible. Athleticism without technique, is fine when you can get away with it (i.e. vs someone less athletic and of similar technique), but there's a meshpoint where someone with better technique can compensate for lesser athleticism. To illustrate, look at someone like J'Marcus Webb or CornWash... both are athletically where they need to be (i.e. they possess the size/speed/strength), but both also lack the technique (due to either lesser Coaching or limited experience). These are guys who didn't have to perfect technique, because they were so much more athletically gifted then the quality of opponent they faced. This is why you have developmental project players taken in the draft (players like JWebb, CornWash and Fendi Onobun). You hope that these types of players can learn the technique necessary with Coaching/experience, but more often than not they fail, because they've been doing these actions wrong for years and can't retrain themselves in the short time spans they're given to do so.

    I know this, because I was one of those gifted athletes who knew fuck-all about technique when I played. It's the reason that I got put at Rush End and was basically told just to "go play". At 6'3" 235lbs with 4.57 speed, yet being completely raw (I didn't play HS football at all)... there was no way they were going to break my bad habits and teach me proper technique at a 2 year JuCo. Although, since I had great first step and elite speed (for a JuCo anyways), I could still contribute by rushing the passer and running down plays from the backside. That and I had just enough balance, agility and hands (from years of Kung-Fu) to not be a complete liability against runs my direction. It wasn't until I started coaching that I learned about how important technique actually is.
  13. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Unless I'm missing something, we are saying the same thing.
  14. Warlock

    Warlock Veteran

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    Yeah, my bad, I took the "chicken and the egg" comment out of context... I thought you were referring to Players being good at blocking/tackling vs Coaching teaching them to be better at said actions... rather than you referring to the success of a team due to players blocking/tackling better than their opponent and how without coaches they probably wouldn't be better than their opponent.
  15. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    One helps the other... And it works both ways. The better the clay, the better it is molded.
  16. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    The only way to get better at those 2 things is by DOING teaching the fundamentals is second but without DOING is like pissing in the wind. That's why Seattle doesn't care about the fine or injury for to much contact in tc. This is still football and if you don't practice real football you are going to get your ass whipped by those that do practice real football. So fine my ass all day long says Pete Carroll we play football not pc grab your ass. (he's in a pc town but winning is still more important to them in the end out there)
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  17. GermansbombedPH

    GermansbombedPH Pro-Bowler

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    true, just thought I bring up all the Players that were here thanks to Jerry
  18. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Well that part remains to be seen but I'd have to agree with your first sentence. Conte got a bad rap last year based mostly on that blown coverage and then when the media followed it up with that PFF ranking that was the icing on the cake. It's pretty typical of how some fans think or actually let the media do their thinking for them.
  19. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Ya see we're off to a bad start in that very first sentence so no sense going any farther. Any play in which you are attempting to keep a team from gaining yardage or from scoring will be based on defensive concepts like gap control, shedding blocks, tackling, etc. If it's not a defensive play then you and I have a totally different perspective on the game of NFL football.

    Warlock we aren't gonna agree on this at all so I'm not gonna debate it. I'm aware of the same things you are but we see them much differently especially when it comes to a coaches responsibility for results. Tucker and DeCamillis get no benefit of the doubt from me. They need to show some results that are better than those they have so far or be gone.

    As for Vince Lombardi, he didn't inherit a talented team. He inherited a losing team of bottom feeders. He BUILT a very talented team out of a lot of rejects from other teams and around a 17th round draft pick for a QB. Lombardi made those player into what they became and to a man they'll admit it. I lived near GB when Lombardi was coaching so I'm very familiar with what happened there.

    We just have different viewpoints and that's good. That's what makes this place so great. Peace.
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  20. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    Conte went from hero to goat in that game

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