Bears will remain a 4-3 base defense

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by BearJim, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    So I was reading around the net and found a tweet saying that Emery has learned from the Shea pick, and at DE he will look for size and length. Remember how so many people like to shout that these guys know more then you and me and that we just need to trust them; well this is why everyone is allowed to question anyone, even a GM that is used to be a scout.

    Shea is and always was, at best a 3-4 OLB, maybe he can be saved as a 4-3 SAM, but he was NEVER a 4-3 DE, he's to small, and he doesn't have elite speed to get around the OT, which is why he was so often swallowed up by OT and TE's, and even FB's.

    This again goes into the JA line of "Im the smartest guy in the room". Luckily it seems Emery's learned from that and will hopefully be better for it. Here's hoping for a Truitt type of 4-3 DE and not a Michael Sam DE/OLB type.
     
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  2. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    I'm just saying is all(5'11, 260, 4.75 40)....A successful football player can be anything. Shea wasn't suited for Defensive End for a multitude of reasons...his size and length to me not being one of them. The majority of his play in college was off the ball. The only time he played with his hand in the ground was obvious pass situations, but even then he was a better rusher from the line backer position. The mistake was thinking he could play defensive end when he had down it sparingly and only in certain situations. Thats just my opinion on it though. I think he will be better at linebacker if we get creative and take advantage of what he does well.
     
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  3. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    The diff is that 4.75 speed, Shea wasn't anywhere near that. If he had sub 5 speed then ya his size and length wouldn't be an issue, but he didn't have what would be considered "elite pass rush speed". So size and length very much came into play.
     
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  4. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Shea ran a 4.54 and a 4.63...which is faster than a 4.75. Come on Ric...
     
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  5. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    straight 40? more important for a WR or RB then a DE. The DE I thought that was more about the cone or split drills. But okay Dumervil also bench'd 30 to Shea's 19 4.6 and 4.7 is not that far apart though. So Dumervil while smaller and a little slower is also A LOT stronger.

    http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2013-nfl-combine-what-to-learn-from-each-drill.html
    10 (and 20) Yard Split
    This might be one of the most telling and unfortunately most forgotten numbers of the entire NFL Combine. While the 40 time is the "sexy" time, only the running back/wide receiver position would ever run 40 yards straight, and even those two positions rarely get that 40 yard space without contact. The 10 yard split shows the explosiveness off the snap from a 3 point stance for the offensive/defensive lineman, which is basically the only valuable part of the drill for those positions. As for the position players, being able to quickly get to a players top speed is crucial for receivers exploding to their first cut, while defensive backs need that explosiveness after they flip their hips and run.

    http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/02/27/ccripe/boise_state_de_tyrone_crawford_runs_40_484_seconds_first_attempt
    10yard split is the most vital stat for a D/O Lineman. Shea was tied for 6th in this for all DL, pretty good except he's not as big or as strong as most DL'men, again only 19 reps, Dum had 30 and he's smaller.
     
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  6. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    I actually agree that the 10 and 20 yard splits are more important. The 40 is actually useless to me...HOWEVER...YOU brought up his 40 time...not me. His 10 yard split was the 6th best...which is pretty damn good. Secondly, while we're talking about faulty tests, the 225 bench test is not a test of pure strength...it's a test of muscle endurance. If the truly wanted to find out how strong these guys were they would have them perform a 3 or 5 rep max. I agree though strength was an issue for him.
     
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  7. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    no you actually brought up the 40 time when you posted the stats on dumervil, just sayin. I merely pointed it out; thinking about the article on 10splits and how Mc was in e 5's(I was getting my #'s mixed).

    valid about the bench, but regardless of strenght or endurance he came up well short of it. and while 6th best is nice, when that is your lone calling card it's not great, and it wasn't what one would call elite speed. I'm struggling to find these #'s, but apparently elite speed DE's have sub 1.5's.
     
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  8. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

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    The Forty time is the one thing that everybody knows. Cones and reps and everything else to a lesser extent.

    Too bad they cant measure a players HEART to PLAY.

    WALTER PAYTON and DICK BUTKUS would have been off the charts.
     
    #38
  9. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    True I mentioned Elvis's 40 time...but you made McClellan sound like he was a 65 year old man running it. Either way...with the way it's set up even 10's and 20's are overrated. At no point in time are you ever setting up in a track stance in tights and running in a straight line. Even a 10 is a poor test because at no time does a football player, save for maybe a wr, run 10 yards straight without stopping, making a cut or changing direction. Vertical jump is probably the test you want to pay attention to the most as that's a great test of explosive ability.

    As for elite 10 yard splits, not one d-lineman in that draft ran a sub 1.5 10. In fact McClellin was only 1 tenth slower at 1.57 than the five guys tied for first with 1.56. Elite is sub 1.5; and if you're running sub 1.5 you're running generally sub 4.4 (incidentally we have 3 guys at my gym who run a sub 1.5 10 and not one of them is a lb or dl, they're db's and a wr). I remember the 2012 combine because we had a couple guys there so I paid a lot attention to it.

    At the end of the day I think we agree that Shea was not put in the correct position and linebacker should be much better for him.
     
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  10. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    Butkus, yep in that we agree. Although I'm not sure he'll be a good LB either, just that was the only place he stands a chance of being good. Even at LB he'll still have to prove he can shed blocks; teams will still run routes and rb's right at him to prove he can make the play. Hopefully he's able of doing it when he has a few steps to get his speed up.
     
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