Can this defense survive the bye week without giving up 400 yards?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by Henry Burris, Oct 27, 2013.

?

Can they?

  1. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    You don't care "why" the defense is under performing, you just want to destroy everything. Perhaps a few of our injured players might be of value to this team, and maybe our DC was given a **** hand from the deck. It isn't as simple as "EVERYONE GET THE HELL OUT OF THE BUILDING NOW!"
  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    True, they are missing 1 OL, hell the Bears last year were missing 5 OL all season(Webb sucks, Carimi Sucks, Chilo sucks, Cwill sucks Garza sucks) and they won games. I would guess 1 T isn't going to end a season for a team that bases everything around their O

    3 wr's...Ya that should have hurt, but look at NE and what they've done w/no WR's this year. can you see how over rated elite wr's are w/an elite qb? Elite wr's make things really nice, but aren't needed to win games, you're seeing that this year....it's actually opened my eyes. Elite qb's DO make their WR's better so they don't need elite WR's, just capable ones.

    And big fat whoop their missing 1 guy on D, no matter how good he is, especially on a team who's O is their calling card.

    Now the bears are missing 2 guys at DT, 1 guy at DE(Wootton is now playing DT), 2 starting LB's, and their best CB is playing hurt, and the only guy that can rush a passer is playing hurt. That's 5 guys on the same side of the field, all but one in the front 7.

    I can respect you saying hit the reset, I'm okay w/that happening, if it does. I just don't think it's going to happen. 1 thing that we can agree on is it's a dumpster fire; but it wasn't just inj's that created this, it wasn't bad scheme either, it was age and lack of talent behind the age. The inj's just highlighted the problem. This D under Tucker has done more then what would have happened under Lovie/Hot Rod to try and create the necessary pressure, including more extensive LB blitzes and line stunts. But by doing that Tucker exposed the really bad safety play of Conte and Wright, and that's the straw that broke the camel's back, the safety play that many talked about as being good and turning a corner last year, is flat bad.
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  3. shark86x

    shark86x Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    This is the post of the month. Although I think Tucker is not the answer, and I would rather have him replaced, he does not get the majority of the blame for this season's performance. I think he sticks around next year because he will get a pass due to the injuries.

    I blame Jerry for his pathetic drafting forcing the problems that ric pointed out. How many safeties did we draft/sign in FA? How many of them were worth the recycled paper fibers they signed on? Did we really draft a guy cuz he could jump out of a swimming pool or was that just a bad nightmare? The injuries caused the steamroller to go out of control, but it was going downhill already due to lack of depth/talent.
  4. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Honestly, with a good defensive line, our safeties don't really look that bad, and when they were playing in a cover 3 defense last year, their CB's really stood out.
  5. shark86x

    shark86x Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    Conte out of place on the line.
    Conte bouncing off a receiver who then makes the catch.
    Conte missing tackles.
    Wright 10 yards off the WR.
    Wright watching the wrong WR
    Wright biting and obvious fakes
    Wright gets an interception or two, but is that because he's so out of position he's able to grab a really bad pass?

    our safeties are terrible. Whether the line is getting pressure or not. Granted, no pressure makes them look worse, but is being bad with pressure and being really bad without pressure acceptable?
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  6. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Henry, now you're the one being ridiculously simplistic. Of course, I "care why" the defense has imploded and I'm not suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath water here. But, looking at the global host of issues (medical status, age, contracts, etc.), there isn't much left on this defense that will or should be around next year.

    Peppers is showing his age and his contract is enormous. No way you can pay a guy that kind of money at his age for less that pro bowl production. He will be gone.

    Melton has one pro bowl year (one that was questioned by a lot of people as to how much it was truly deserved and how much it was due to Pep sucking up extra attention). He looked very average only in the 3 games he played in this season. Next year he will be returning from a major knee injury. No way he gets a LT contract. If another team want to overpay him, then let him go. Maybe he will be back on a one-year "prove it" deal, maybe not. I wouldn't count on him for much even if he is.

    Cornerbacks: we have 4 of them that are FAs. I would try to re-sign Peanut to a 2-3 year final deal (if his knee is ok) because he is still a game changer with his takeaway ability. I'd keep Bowman as he's been decent on D and plays good STs. Jennings and Hayden can walk.

    DJWIlliams will be coming off a major injury and is in his 30s. See ya.

    Shea: either make something out of him at LB or cut him if he flops

    Corey Wooton I would like to keep. He's young, healthy, and has shown enough versatility to play inside and out.

    Major Wright needs to hit the road. He hasn't earned a LT contract. Conte is playing badly too but he has one more year/chance left on his rookie deal.

    Any strong disagreements with any of that? I think its a pretty realistic (if sobering) assessment of the contract/roster situation on defense that Emery will be soon facing. Yeah that's a major blowup on defense with at least 4 new starters needed and Briggs/Tillman probably to follow within 2 more years.
  7. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Um, it's perfectly normal for good players to have bad stretches (Henry Melton), and while the defense wasn't GREAT in the beginning, they did everything necessary against the Bengals to win (notice how a far superior Jets defense was decimated for 5 td passes yesterday?).

    Remember the Vikings game? The one where Jay Cutler fumbles the ball away, and throws 2 INTs in the second quarter, to allow the Vikings the chance to come back, in what should have been an absolute blowout? Or how about the fact that the Bears D stopped Adrian Peterson from getting 100 yards?

    What about the Lions game, when the offense REPEATEDLY turned the ball over, deep in their own territory, to allow the Lions many chances to score early and often? This defense, pre injury, was not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be, and Jay Cutler's contributions in the 4th quarter (to make up for his many turnovers in the first half) are overly praised, in helping win "despite the defense".

    While the Saints game was somewhat winnable, whenever your 6 of your 7 possessions in the first half end in a punt, and, when the majority of them earn you less than 20 yards, your offense is giving your defense NOTHING to work with. That Hail Mary at the end of the second was luck, and even so, it didn't result in a touchdown.

    Now, I know many on here are going to completely misinterpret what I'm saying, so maybe (doubtful, really) if I explain it this way, you'll get it: This defense may be trash now, but that's largely due to injury. When the defense actually had a pulse, this offense couldn't quit tripping over its own shoes NOT to help them. We need a healthy and effective defensive line more than we need anything else on defense, because a good d-line can mask many of the problems a secondary might have.
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  8. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Yep it's not that I like or want to defend the D, but the O hasn't looked near as good as people think it has, and as of last week, the Bears D was 2nd or 3rd in turn overs, which has greatly helped the O actually score on short fields when it was struggling to drive the ball.

    To try and put it in perspective, here are how many times the team drove the ball more then 50 yards:

    Wk 1, 2 times, both 80, 2 drives over 50 yards in an entire game...that is sad.
    wk 2, 3 times, an 80, 70, and 60, again 3 drives in an entire game, sad.
    wk 3, 3 times, 1 70, 1 60, 1 50...it's getting worse.
    wk 4, 5..now we are talking. 1 80, 2 70, 1 60 and 1 50. That's basically 1 a qtr I'll take it.
    wk 5, another 5, we're heating up, 2 80, 2 70 and a 50.
    wk 6, woops slipt back to pre wk 4, 2 80 and a 50.
    wk7, a nice bounce back w/the caveat that not one of these happened w/Cutler: 3 80yrd drives, 2 60 drives. That's right our best drives came w/the backup in against an awfull D.

    So what's my point? The O is scoring at a really high rate, which is fine, but it's not b/c of their own prowess, their doing it b/c the D and ST's are giving good field position, much like in years past. There are way to many 3 and out's, there are way to many sub 30 yard drives for my liking.

    Worse then that though, if the D isn't getting the TO, they are normally giving up a score. The O needs to keep the D off the field w/more long drives then they have been giving them.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
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  9. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    The D did a serviceable job against pretty potent Bengals O in the opener and has done nothing since but disappoint. In game 2, the D was bad enough to almost make Christian Ponder look like a potential franchise QB. The following week, the hapless Steelers ran and passed all over us (note: these are two of the NFLs worst offenses we are talking about here and then throw in NYG who almost looked powerful against us despite also being also among the bottom). I won't even go into the how bad the redskins are and how good we made them look.

    4 teams whose offenses don't really scare anyone that racked up big yards and points against us.
  10. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    To piggyback this comment, here's the turnover difference in each game so far:

    Cincinnati: 1 offensive TO, 3 defensive TO

    Minnesota: 4 offensive TO, 3 defensive TO

    Pittsburgh: 0 offensive TO 5 defensive TO

    Detroit: 4 offensive TO, 3 defensive TO

    Saints: 1 offensive TO, 0 defensive TO

    Giants: 0 offensive TO, 3 defensive TO

    Washington: 1 offensive, 1 defensive TO

    (games in bold are losses)

    The Bears are currently tied for 3rd in turnover difference, but, seeing as the injuries started to pile up around the time we started picking up losses, that trend is looking to go south, once we play Green Bay and Detroit. On this board, "the defense sucks" and "the defense is just old" get thrown around a lot here, but when your offense, for a multitude of reasons (having a 3rd tackle on the line shows they're masking for blocking deficiencies, even though I've always been a supporter of this) not only turns the ball over, but at inopportune times, you'd even put the best defenses at a great disadvantage to prevent a score.

    Now, to switch over to why I think the safeties aren't completely terrible, I will say, yes, they are mediocre. However, they were able to help hold Aaron Rodgers to 228 yards passing, even when they were missing both Brian Urlacher and Tim Jennings. I'm saying, more than anything, if Emery can rebuild the defensive line, their deficiencies will be easier to mask, without a question. It wouldn't hurt to have competition for them, but, unless there's an amazing prospect that falls to us, we may be stuck with them, and as long as the d-line gets fixed, that's not the worst thing in the world. It will mean more ground would have to be covered by cornerbacks, but seeing as both of our CB's were able to make the pro bowl last year, that's not too much to put faith in.
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  11. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    You are overlooking the difference an offensive turnover makes in a game.
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  12. gramster10

    gramster10 Rookie

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    Bigger question can they play football.All the hype of experts on difficulty is ok but passing,running,blocking,tackling, and pass coverage are a big part of the game. Cover 2 or whatever you label it breaks down to doing the job which is outplaying the person in front of you.Geez these are all college grads you aren't asked to do brain surgery just block and tackle you know that uniform you put on is a football outfit.Frankly if you win or lose just let the packers know that you are a football player and make the plays.Rodgers plays hard he isn't any greater than some but he makes the effort every play and that equals results like wins.He will be playing the big question here is will the Bears make the effort as a team as they look lost and in reality they aren't.
  13. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    We all agree that the D was amazing on takeaways (and still is to a lesser extent). That's not the issue. Right now, it's just whitewashing problems to some extent and the only thing still holding this unit out of the basement.

    Can you imagine how terrible this defense would be statistically this year if it didn't have the takeaways it has had?
    Do you realize that we were (pre-bye, thru 7 games) only 16-total-points-allowed from falling behind Jacksonville for last place in the NFL?
    And that was with playing 4 of our first 7 games against teams whose offenses truly suck.
  14. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Not playing the "what if" game. The fact is, our offense has turned the ball more than the defense could get a takeaway, themselves, and our offense hasn't been consistent with making anything of other team's turnovers.
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  15. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    This thread isn't about the offense. It is about the D and the astounding way it has collapsed so far and so fast. I know it is difficult to accept and tempting to make excuses for, so I hope Emery doesnt fall into that same trap.

    [Off topic: I fully agree that the offense, while much improved and improving over Martz/Tice-levels, is still a work in progress. It still disappears for whole quarters at a time, it still isn't controlling clock like it should, and it still has had too many ball security problems. All that is true.]
  16. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    MP, but see for Henry and I it's a interconnected thing, if the O would be better and more consistant, this colapse would be less of an issue.

    No one is defending the awfullness that is the Def, but how do you either fix it, or still win games w/it. This season is beyond help to fix, so now you have to hide it. And the only way to do that is to have the O be more stable.
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  17. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Of course it's all inter-connected to some degree. Wouldn't the O's time of possession percentage look better if the damn D ever got off the field?

    The point is that when your O is clearly improved and in the top half of the league stats-wise, it's pretty hard to place too much blame there even if the unit definitely still has some work to do. When your D goes from top-5 to bottom-5 in a single year, gets scorched on big pass plays repeatedly, and makes pretty much every RB look like Jim Brown, ahhh....there's a major problem there.

    I too was pissed by Cutler's turnover-spasms and the offense's disappearing act during segments of the first 4-5 games. I didn't want to face what was (increasingly obvious) wrong with the D. But that last game in Washington, really tipped the balance for me. Completely pathetic. Even with our backup QB getting us the team the lead several times, the defense couldn't make one single stop against all second half against an opposing offense that should scare no one.
  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    You could say the O ToP would look better if the D could get off the field; IF the O could actually stay on the field. Go back to my post w/all the drives over 50 yards. The bears in all but 3 games only could muster 3 drives a game over 50 yards. That's just not enough, and it's not for a lack of chances, many times they had more drives then the other team did.
  19. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Ok, Ric, yeah the O has faltered at times, still has kinks to work out, and has been very inconsistent (sometimes kickass, sometimes 3 and out way too often). No kidding, all true.

    But when your D is so incompetent that it is surrendering 350+ yards regularly, getting run all over sometimes by nothing RBs, getting scorched left and right on big passing plays, can't get a flippin' sack to save their lives, and can barely hold anyone (even shit opposing O's) to under 25, then the lions share of your problems are on the defense.

    I know you hate Cutler--and he frustrates me too sometimes--but do really expect this offense to have to win shootouts every week? Are you going to blame McCown when we lose 38-13 to Green Bay in a week?

    In recent years, the the O in general sucked and especially the OL and receiving corps. It finally got attention under Emery, and that included player and coaching changes, and now that same mentality needs to be focused on the defense. No sacred cows and no excuses. Melton << Clay Matthews and GB's D has manned up despite injuries.

    This current Bears defensive unit blows big time and a (near total) clean sweep is needed. Geezus, outside of Briggs and Tillman, what is so sacrosanct here? Why did Tice get the axe (deservedly so) yet Tucker gets the injury excuse? As I recall, Tice and Martz both had injury issues and a lack of "horses" too to deal with. Clean house from the top down.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  20. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Yeah, and a LOT of those early season meltdowns were after Jay and the offense was stuck on 3 and out mode. No matter how bad they are, for as many turnovers as they've created, the offense should have done a lot more with it, but they were too busy turning the ball over, themselves.

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