Can we please stop making excuses for the defense?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by BradMustersGhost, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. DavidL

    DavidL SuperFan

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    Wow, Trestman has a weird perspective. I guess he downplays the significance of the game to relax the team and keep them steady if they lose.
  2. Mr. Deliverance

    Mr. Deliverance Guest

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    There are games where your QB buries your team and gives you no shot to win. This was one of them. Cutler needed to get something going on those drives in the 2nd quarter and he didn't. What would have helped that Bears defense today was doing something on those 4 terrible possessions in the 2nd quarter. 2 of those 4 possessions the Bears had the ball for no more than 2 minutes. The INT possession lasted 18secs. The other 3 and out possession the Bears had the ball for 43sec. If I was on that defense I'd be seriously pissed off that the offense is just giving the ball back that quickly.

    When your defense is reeling like that, your offense just has to do a much better job of getting something going. You can't just hand the ball back like that, with the kind iof momentum DET had. That's football 101. And I hope we don't see anymore quarters like that this year, because that game was over in 1 quarter.
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  3. MPbears68

    MPbears68

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    As bad as Reggie Bush hurt us (which All-Pro Calvin Johnson didn't as some people avoid admitting), the D wasn't the cause of the loss. When you hold Stafford to under 250 yards and take the ball away 3 times but still lose, the D is the lesser of your problems.
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  4. 4dabers

    4dabers

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    Wow, I don't see anyone on here defending Jay Cutler, but I see people SAYING that people are defending Jay Cutler. I will say the same thing that a handful of others have said, this loss is on the whole team. Muster is right, this Defense needs help. I really think we are starting to see the age of some of our defensive stars, especially Briggs and Peppers. Yes, Cutler put the Defense in a bad spot a number of times, and Jay played badly; hell, I'll go farther than that, Jay played like crap. He was off on everything; but our Defense and Special teams played poorly too. Everyone has a bad day occasionally, but if other elements of the team play well you can sometimes overcome it. However, every now and then you have a game where the whole team plays bad, and that was our game yesterday. I'm not going to get too upset after one game. If you had asked this board a month ago if we would be happy if we were 3-1 at this point, I think the opinion would be a unanimous "yes".
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  5. 4dabers

    4dabers

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    Come on Ric, Reggie Bush averaged 144 yards in his first 3 games? Well, he didn't play against Washington and the numbers you quote are all purpose yards. Let's look at his rushing:

    Vs. Vikings, Bush rushed for 90 yards with a 4.3 yd/rush average
    Vs. Cardinals, Bush rushed for 25 yards for a 2.8 yard/rush average

    Now, before I show the Chicago stats, keep in mind that you are comparing our defense to that of the Vikings (1-3) and the Cardinals (2-2).

    Vs. the beloved, Bush rushed for 139 yards for a 7.7 yard/rush average

    If you are in a game where your back is rushing for 7.7 yards per attempt, then the passing game numbers should (and were) pedestrian. Now, If you want to blame Cutler exclusively (which we all agree he played terribly, and I freely admit that sack/fumble/TD was on him), that's fine, but I suggest that it's a disingenuous argument. Losing Melton hurt us, but that is not the only problem with this Defense. It needs to be addressed.
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  6. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters

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    The defense is mediocre at best when they're not taking the ball away.

    Bears management (Angelo and Lovie I'm looking at you) is to blame for wasting the prime years of an elite defense by putting an absolute shit offense out there to go with it.

    Now the defense is over the hill and the offense is just now getting good.
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  7. BradMustersGhost

    BradMustersGhost

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    EXACTLY. Well said, 4dabers. Has Bush EVER had a game where he RUSHED for as many yards as he did against us?! Our defense looked like a Pop Warner unit trying to tackle Emmit Smith.
  8. ZifanQ

    ZifanQ SuperFan

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    While it was winable JABF99, the defense still didn't go their job. Bush to way to much space and there was imo hardly any pressure on Stafford. We are pretty lucky he didn't have a field day and made loads of bad throws otherwise it might just had been a massacre..
  9. riczaj01

    riczaj01

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    I don't care about rush vs all purpose or not in todays NFL, guys like Bush and Forte make their money b/c of their rec threat as well as their run threat. He's averaging 144 yards, that's what matters.. Forte averaged 6.8, against a much better Det D, on the year he's been averaging 4.4, should we talk about how shitty the Det D is now?

    Bush had good game, but that was at the expense of CJ, I warned everyone after that FA signing that Det was going to be hard to stop now that they have Threats at all 3 levels, CJ deep, TE's middle and now Bush. You cannot stop all of them. Of the two who would put your Def set up to stop? Bush or Johnson?

    Last year Bush ran for 172 on Oak, and 203 the year before that against Buffalo, so ya he's ran for more and better yards then he did yesterday.
  10. 4dabers

    4dabers

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    • So you warned us about Detroit? What does that have to do with the argument Ric? Frankly, anyone that pays any attention to football knew that the Lions were improving; we don't need your omnipotent vision to see it. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting we lost to a poor team and we all admit that their offense is improved.

    • As for your point that you don't care about all purpose yards vs. rushing, well, perhaps you should. If a team can rush on you when they are winning then you are in a bad position. You are right that if you can run AND pass, then you have a difficult team to defend, but you HAVE to stop the run FIRST.

    • As for Forte, well, if you want to talk about how shitty the Detroit D is, that's fine, but again, it's off point (especially considering 56% of Fortes rushing yards came on one play which was not the case with Bush). We're not talking about Detroit, we're talking about the Bears and if the Defense or QB is more to blame. Many of us freely agree that Cutler's game yesterday was largely to blame for this loss, but some of us also suggest that our Defense needs to be addressed, yet somehow, that is turning into us being apologists for Cutler? On the contrary, we are admitting that there are more flaws in this team than others may want to admit.

    • I looked up Bush's rushing stats too. He did, in fact rush for 172 yards against the 2012 Oakland Raiders who ended the season with a 4-12 record, and for 203 yards against the 2011 Buffalo Bills that ended with a 6-10 record and has had one of the leagues worst rushing defenses over the last 3 or 4 years. Those are the only two times in his 7 1/3 year career that he has rushed for more than he did yesterday. I'm not sure how that helps prove your point; I'm thinking that kind of supports MusterGhost.
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  11. riczaj01

    riczaj01

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    1) Anyone that pays attention to football, I would say, not saying you, the vast majority on this site still had Det as the dumpster of the NFCN. This was going to be a dogfight regardless, and a good portion of that was b/c they now have a legit running back to keep teams honest.

    2) Weather it's by rush or by short pass the RB position is more and more changing, and guys like Forte and Bush help move the chains w/their ability to do both. Both are a duel threat and to ignore their pass stats b/c they're "rb's" is a poor way to handle the stats in today's NFL. If he had been bottled up in the rush, he would have been just as disruptive in w/passes out of the backfield, just like Forte, you are not going to stop them when the team has to key on WR's and TE's.

    3) I don't care how many come one or 2 or 20 plays, the yards are the yards, the td's are the tds, You really think Bush got 7+ yards everytime he touched the ball? or are you going to go back and remove his long runs b/c they scew the #'s? Biggest problem w/Forte getting most his yards on 1 carry is that they stopped giving him the F'n ball, again in the 2nd when the game was still very much in play, they went w/Cutler in the air and away from the guy that was moving the ball, if they use Forte more, Cutler doesn't throw those horrid Int's and the team might have a few more points on the board and Det has a few less...games completely different

    4) Someone asked if he had ever ran like that against another team, he has. Doesn't matter how good or bad they were or are. He has the potential to do that, but since we are going over the play of other teams, how good were the Mia teams he was on during those games(I'll give you a hint sub .500) but how bad the team he is on doesn't matter right? B/c that doesn't fit the mold of Bush is a sub par rb, just how bad the team they are playing is right? I mean his QB was Chad F'n Henne, and he's backing up Blaine F'n Gabbert right now if that tells you how good he is. Ya but that helps prove BM's point? The point is Bush has the POTENTIAL to do that, and NOW w/a legit qb who has a the best WR in the NFL and a couple TE's that teams have to try and defend besides Bush, well he's just going to have better and better games then his past. If you don't see that, I cannot help you, nor can anyone else.

    Bush is a smaller, faster version of Forte, and Forte's a damn good RB, and both are really better then good when they have qb's and wr's and te's that keep the heat off them.
  12. BradMustersGhost

    BradMustersGhost

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    I don't want to argue anymore, I just want a defense that can actually stop people EVEN when the opposing offense doesn't commit a turnover. :( Bring back the 85 Bears. :4_8_4v[1]:
  13. Mr. Deliverance

    Mr. Deliverance Guest

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    I want an offense that actually stops the other team and doesn't turn the ball over via 3 and outs and stupid picks, that are a result of an arrogant QB that thinks he can make every throw.
  14. BradMustersGhost

    BradMustersGhost

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    oh come on, Snuggle.
  15. 4th and 26

    4th and 26 Staff Member

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    I blame Urlacher for getting old.
  16. riczaj01

    riczaj01

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    85 Bears wouldn't be able to stop the top O teams w/the way the rules are right now. I heard the radio guys talking about the breakdown of the game and the Trestman meeting yesterday that the team was forced into Nickle most of the game b/c of the threat of the pass, that means that the DL really has to step up their game, problem w/that is that w/out Melton Paea was moved out of position and Collins was forced to fill in for Paea, for all those wanting to blame Tucker for something, there ya go. The D even under the Love Rod had a problem w/tackling, and it's even more apparent now.

    Look at the other problem, and it will look similar to what our O has gotten used to in the past b/c of ST's an D:

    Dets scoring drives:
    08:34105:56DET 17, 11 plays, 78 yardsField Goal
    01:14101:46CHI 31, 5 plays, 18 yardsField Goal
    13:44203:25DET 16, 8 plays, 61 yardsField Goal
    08:12202:03CHI 22, 4 plays, 22 yardsTouchdown
    05:51200:04CHI 2, 1 play, 2 yardsTouchdown
    03:35200:52DET 49, 2 plays, 51 yardsTouchdown
    13:14404:17DET 19, 8plays, 56yards Field Goal

    The Chicago D was put into shitty field position all througout the 1st 1/2, couple that w/the fact that the Bears O had3 drives of 18, 44 and 48 sec's and the D couldn't even catch their breath in the 2nd. The Lions held the ball 9+ min's in the 1st qtr, and again 9 min's in the 2nd qtr. The D was out there all but 12 min's of the 1st 1/2. The O was not carrying their weight.

    Did the D play well, no. They didn't play well. But they only gave up 1 TD and a total of 16 points when the Det O wasn't handed the ball in Chicago territory, I just don't know what else you expect from a D when the O hands the ball over 4 times and the D spends the entire 1st half on their side of the field. In the 3rd and 4th they didn't give up a TD, and only gave up 1 fg, so much like the O, the D finished strong.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
  17. MPbears68

    MPbears68

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    I agree. I'm not deluding myself into believing that this years D is a top-5 unit anymore but remove the O/ST screwups and the D surrendered a very respectable amount of points to a potent Detroit offense on the road in their dome. It would be a lot easier on the D if Cutler would stop handing the opponent extra possessions on short fields.
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  18. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston

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    And I blame Angelo for allowing it.
  19. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston

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    Keep in mind though that while Detroit is a good team, most of that is because of their D (especially DL). Stafford is good, and certainly Johnson is great, but most of the time they can be contained with a good D.

    God help us when we have to visit Denver if Manning is still their QB.
  20. phatdude

    phatdude

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    This is my favorite thread so far. I know it's easy to be blinded by the "Old Jay" news, but the D I think is on a slippery slope. Like I've said in almost every post I've made, we are feeling the effect of losing Marinelli and Urlacher. Not to mention the new rumor of Izzy ratting out our D plays to Detroit. If that is true, that shows they just left the D on cruise control and it's now veering off a cliff. When we play Dallas, be sure that Rod Marinelli will have a field day with our D.

    Besides Tillman, I don't see any stellar players this year. Sure, every now and then they have some awesome plays. But overall they are sloppy on "defense fundamentals". We take for granted that there will always be a "Bears Defense", but I see that slowly slipping away. Now we have a weakening D and we have a new o-line and a QB starting with new plays. The team is going to be in bad shape if we don't take care of the D and soon.
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