Chi v Oak post game talk

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by riczaj01, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. BearJim

    BearJim Veteran SuperFan DBS Writer

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    The pick McCown threw was a bad decision but rewatching the play it looked like Boggs snapped the ball before he should've again & none of the OL/TEs were ready, leading to Onobun missing his block (He was also called for holding on the play) & McCown making a bad play. He still should've taken the sack but he & Boggs being out of sync lead to 2 TOs. If they get on the same page those never happen. If Cutler were to get hurt McCown would get more practice reps (with Garza) & be ok. He's an average QB on his best day but I think we would be ok with him for a game or 2. Anything more than that & we would be in trouble but you could say the same with any of our BU QBs. I think one of the biggest reasons he'll be the BU this year is his locker room presence as the word is he's a great teammate.

    Next year we should definitely draft a QB in the middle rounds to complete with Blanchard but this year McCown is the BU, like it or not.

    Back to the game like everyone else says it preseason so I'm not going to read too much into the game but it was nice to see the offense play really well even if it was against what looks like a weak Raider team. If not for all the drops, who knows how much we score in the 1st half. We looked sharp on both sides of the ball, & ST, although not as good as last week, were pretty good except the 62 yard KO return. The O-line was as good as we've seen around here in a long time, PS or regular season.

    The main negative to me was the play of our 2nd & 3rd team, especially on defense. C.J. Wilson looked ok but McManis & Hurst look lost.

    Players who seem to be on the bubble who I thought did themselves well were C.J. Wilson, Ford, Weems & our FB Fiammetta.

    The guy that I wish could get himself over the hump is Onobun. I think he might be putting too much pressure on himself so that one drop leads to another & another & so on. He could be a big x-factor for this offense. He always seems to be open, he might just need to catch a couple, get some confidence & let his athletic ability take over. I would expect he'll get some opportunities against the Browns next week & hopefully he'll just relax out there & make some plays. To be the 3rd TE (if we keep 3) he just has to beat out Adams, who is a tough guy but very limited athletically. It make come down to keeping 6 WR or 3 TEs. I think they will keep Fiammetta so that might mean just 2 TEs. Who knows how it will play out. I'm hoping he makes that a tough decision for Trestman & co.

    Is Onobun illegible for the practice squad?
  2. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Yep. I'm not saying McC is anything more than barely serviceable (he isn't) but you have to admit he's playing with a supporting cast (Webb, EWilliams, Weems, Onobun) that is pretty much hot garbage offensively. And with defenses being ahead of offenses in general at this time of the year, it's no surprise that he hasn't looked all that good even against other teams reserves. Lets remember that we are struggling to field a decent O and OL in the FIRST STRING still, so our backups pretty much suck. Frankly, none of those 4 guys I mentioned above are worth squat except perhaps Weems' ST ability.

    When it comes to QBs, pretty much ALL backups suck compared to 1st string expectations. So know that going in and accept it. Yes, that includes young "non-vet" backups too. For every Favre-Rodgers/Smith-Kaepernick/Montana-Young untested backup QB situation, there are easily 10 times that where the rookie/young guy flops and amounts to nothing in the long run. I understand the point about not wasting too much cash on vet backup QBs with no upside, but the alternative doesn't pan out either all that often (see Hanie, Enderle, etc). Geno Smith may flop without even having to wait until November if he keeps it up lol.

    I don't really have any interest in Harrell. He sucks too doesn't he? I'd rather stick with McC this year until Blanchard is ready to supplant him. We can draft another project next year when the class is looking deeper and we have 8 picks to play with.
  3. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I don't know whether he's eligible for the PS or not. But he's been with something like 6 teams and has never caught on and now we know why. He has BAD HANDS (or bad hand-eye coordination as Soul suggested).
  4. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Ford is a nice UDFA find. That's one area Phil and his scouts seem adept at. He's got a nice combination of speed, power and moves. It's gonna be a whole lot easier to rebuild on the fly and afford to keep some of our higher paid guy if we can keep coming up with late picks and UDFAs to fill depth and develop.

    Last year we got Frey in the 6th and signed James Brown who was the top UDFA OLineman and both are progressing nicely. This year we've got Mills in the 5th, Marquess Wilson in the 7th, and Ford as an UDFA along with C J Wilson and Zach Minter who look they may all make the final roster. That's a nice collection of lower round and UDFA talent so far.
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  5. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    MP, I'm going to digress here because this always burns me for all these years by the moronic Bears organization. Bears used to play Tampa twice a year because we had them in our division. Guess who was the QB on that pathetic Tampa team before going to SanFran? Yep Young. My brother and I would always say "wouldn't it be great if the Bears would get Steve Young from Tampa." Of course the SanFran dominating team does but look who's at the helm of that team. Walsh a great offensive minded coach knows what to look for in good QB's. Why do same organizations that will not be mentioned always seem to have great QB's? That's why things are going to change around here we finally have have people that can judge talent at many levels.
  6. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Yeah I did Nakoma and it's not out of the question that it's been overlooked because depth perception is a totally different issue than lack of visual acuity and needs to be tested for in a different manner. I'm not saying that it is that instead of just nerves or a lack of concentration or just plain old fashioned bad technique but I am saying that it's possible. I spent quite a few years in the eye care field and I've coached fast pitch softball and baseball and he shows some indications of a lack of depth perception and the typical way it affects someone trying to catch a ball in flight.

    Just sayin'.
  7. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I hear ya. No doubt the Bears have been an organization with QB-myopia for decades. Grossman? Mirer? McNown? Pretty pathetic. I hope we finally have a HC and GM who can identify and develop talent and potential at the position going forward.
  8. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    The only reason we bring Harrell in is to replace Trent Green or Palmer and then only if it looks like Blanchard's injury will keep him out far longer than most of us expect it will. They may be faced with putting him on IR and if that's the case we'll need a #3 and Harrell has played in a similar WCO the past two years. Does he suck? Probably no worse than Palmer or Green.

    Despite the rants of a few McCown IS the #2 QB and will STAY the #2 QB if he's healthy. He has a bad game Friday night. It was a Murphy's Law deal. If anything could go wrong it did. Webb gets holding call on his first series and kills that drive (seems familiar huh?). Boggs snaps the ball prematurely while he's trying to call an audible. Onobun drops a pass that might have helped keep another drive alive then misses his block on the pass that was picked and McCown has nowhere to step up and throw. I think he was trying to put it where only Weems could have gotten it but he couldn't get anything on the ball. In hindsight he should have taken the sack and he knows it but if he has a clean pocket that ball is probably gonna be thrown out of bounds. Bad decision true but also very bad pass blocking.

    In the first paragraph you confirm my point. He's not playing with our starters and in this game we proved our starters can beat the crap out of theirs but they proved their 2nd string can beat up ours. Our depth is sketchy on offense because the starters have gotten far more reps in practice while learning this new offense whereas Oakland's offense is somewhat mediocre to bad no matter whether it's the starters or the reserves. They're all fighting for their jobs. Our second line defense wasn't so hot either with the exception of a couple of guys who stood out in the crowd. They made Pryor look good whereas the 1st team would have murdered him. We missed at least two sacks when guys who don't have the speed or athleticism of the starters flat out missed dropping him for a big loss. If McClellin was in there chasing him that wouldn't have happened. He could have run him down and brought him down.

    All the statements about McCown being horrid and not an NFL caliber QB are like a fish flopping around in the bottom of a boat. The fish doesn't like it but he knows he's caught. So Ric and the rest have no other option but to bitch about it and say we should have drafted a QB neatly ignoring what Emery said about WANTING TO but not being ABLE TO. Those guys are like the fish flopping around in the bottom of the boat. It's unfortunate that we can't hit them over the head with an anchor to quiet 'em down like you would a big old bass or a pike huh? LOL :D
  9. WearyBear

    WearyBear Rookie

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    Yep. All of the balls I've seen him drop were catchable.
  10. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Since we don't know what his situation with other teams was before coming to the Bears the best answer I can give right now is "it's possible" but if this is his third year in the league there a fair amount of requirements that have to be met.

    I think they want to give him every chance they can to make it because they see some real talent and desire in him and now it's down to him and Kyle Adams and if he can block better and play STeams well he should have the edge and they'll work through his other issues. It's obvious the kid is getting open. They just need to find out why he can't catch.
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  11. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Steve Young also had a huge contract and there was no way the Mikey McCaskey run Bears were gonna pick that up. SF had an owner in the De Bartolo's that had the money and spent it on their team which is why the developed the dynasty they did being two and three deep with good vet talent at some positions. I mean Steve Young as a #2 to Joe Montana? Whoa!

    Then came the salary cap and SF got their tit in a wringer for trying to get around and got fined and lost draft picks which started then on their eventual decline. Yeah Bill Walsh was a great coach but he had carte blanche as far as filling his roster before there way a salary cap to limit that kind of stock piling. In fact they, along with Jerry Jones and Dallas, were one of the main reasons there is a salary cap. The other owners didn't want to have to keep competing with their deep pockets.
  12. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Which is why when they were all right there for him to grab you have to look into all of the reasons for him not being able to do that and a vision problem is one of those issues. I once worked with eye docs who treated Packer players for vision related issues so it's not just something I pulled out of my keester. Some players need visual therapy to overcome a problem like this.
  13. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    He was getting open. He runs good routes. But he actually looks worse than K.Davis trying to catch (and I watched him at training camp too). The kid couldn't catch a football if his life depended on it. Even balls that hit him perfectly - he just drops them.

    He's not just bad. He's pathetic.

    Trestman isn't stupid. He knows he at least needs 1 backup TE to Bennett who can catch a football. I'm thinking they may try to snag someone who gets cut from another team's roster. Surely we won't go with the TE roster we have now. I hope not anyway.

    Soul, maybe I'm wrong here. I am wrong a lot on player issues (you guys know that). But regarding this particular player situation, there's a "history" here that I can't shake. For years we've seen the Bears try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear (the Webb thing, or K.Davis, or the countless players in the past that couldn't play their football position........Hester as WR is another failure). I really don't feel good about players playing a position on the team where they can't play due to lacking the skills to PLAY that position (like a receiving TE who can't catch a football). I just have a sick feeling in my stomach that this kid can't play.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  14. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Then you need to find out why and that brings me back to the vision issue. I could be totally off base with that but this kid did play college BB on some good teams and in order to play forward on a BB team you have to be able to catch a ball and rebound so what's the reason those skills aren't carrying over? Maybe it's hand/eye coordination, maybe it's nerves and maybe the guy just has hand of stone but whatever it is, if he's getting the rest done well, they need to see if it's correctable.

    If he has any PS eligibility the maybe that's why he's still around. Adams can be the 3rd TE while they stick Onobun in front of a jugs machine for 8 hours and make him learn to catch. It worked wonders for Tim Jennings. That kid couldn't catch a cold in 2011 and last year he leads the league in picks and makes the Pro Bowl and on it goes. So if he can be fixed than it's possible Onobun can be fixed as well.
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  15. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Guess I misunderstood your point about Harrell. I just don't see Blanchard's injury as being all that long term. It's not his throwing hand so a few weeks splinted and he should be ok I would think. The only reason to IR him wold be roster protection so PUP only if he needs a little more time. Are you thinking they might try to sneak him back on the PS? Dunno...

    Your last paragraph made me laugh, great analogy. Yeah, idealism often runs into reality in life, huh? We don't have a young QB (yet) who's ready to be the stand-alone #2, especially with MB missing reps this preseason. And we had no shot at drafting one worthy either. So, the "dreaded vet backup" is the only option right now and McC is no worse than most all things considered and way cheaper than the few who might be a little better (Moore? Daniels?). Until Blanchard or a draftee is ready, I don't know wtf some people expect us to do....
  16. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Soul, all of your points are good. And to be honest, I did wonder about the fact that he played basketball at a solid BB school. So you'd think the guy could catch a ball. It could be vision I guess. Or it could be a "head problem" that makes him drop easy passes now. Maybe it's a confidence thing, where he's been cut by so many teams over the past three years that he simply has zero confidence, and drops easy passes. I just worry that it's a repeat of the countless other stone hands guys we've had on our rosters. Guys who simply can't play.

    LOL. He's one butt ugly guy to watch right now though. You want to throw up watching how badly he performs. I gave him a pass on the TD drop, even though it was a pass anyone could catch (even non-football people like my wife), but this last game - wow - the guy was just butt-ugly out there. Bad. Really really stinking it up. If he played that way in a REAL game we'd be throwing a shoe through our TV after those pathetic drops.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  17. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I don't think he's eligible for placement on the PUP once he's practiced, only the IR. So if he's not ready to go by the opener Trestman needs to decide whether he can live with just two QBs until Blanchard can go again or whether to keep one of the others for a game or two and keep Blanchard on the 53 man roster and just leave him inactive. I don't they'll risk putting him on the PS. QB hungry teams are looking for developmental guys and he's as good as anybody I've seen the Bears bring here in a very long time. I think if they put him on waivers somebody will take him before he even gets to the PS because once he's on our PS no one can take him just for theirs. They have to keep him on the active roster.

    LOL, it's not that Ric and others may not be right about the correct approach to it all but it's still very premature for next year and way to late for this one unless somebody gets cut whose better but then how are you gonna teach him the offense in a very short period of time vs McCown whose had almost six months of it. So for now we have to accept McCown as the best option available until something else materializes. The analogy was simply meant to say why waste the energy arguing something that won't change. We have no other QBs who are any better and that fish ain't goin' back in the lake. Sometimes you just have to surrender to inevitability right? :D
  18. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I'm sure not arguing for keeping the guy against all common sense that says don't. Even though we saw that kind of thinking in the past I don't think it's operative any longer around this team under Emery and Trestman. If there's one thing these two do often is collect that facts, form an opinion, and make a decision popular or not. He may well be that 15th guy whose name hasn't been released yet and God knows based on his last few games it wouldn't shock me beyond the fact that if they already let Miller and Pope go my guess is he'll be around until the final cut down.

    If he makes it to the active roster there must be some reason for doing it. Trestman has nothing vested in him like Tice did with Webb or Martz did with Chester Taylor and Manu the "Pineapple" a TE he had playing FB or RWill and his assurance that he, Mike Martz, would magically resurrect that lazy assholes career to the tune of 80 catches of more that year. LMAO! Onobun can't be worse than RWill was and at least Onobun is willing to block. I don't see Trestman keeping anyone who can't perform now at least well enough to be trusted playing at a backup spot.
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  19. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    That's the best point from anyone on the Onobun situation IMHO. If we keep him then the people who know best see something in him worth gambling on. I trust this coaching staff, so if they keep him, then I'll believe he's worth it. That's the bottom line.
  20. Nakoma1

    Nakoma1 Veteran

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    Yeah and Webb was a great move

    BLUNDER # 1

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