Chi v Was what we learned

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by riczaj01, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    So, did substituting McClellin for Izzy totally screw up the chemistry of the front-4? That is the only personnel change other than Peppers getting a year older and falling off the radar.
  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    The Loss of Melton and Collins also hurt; b/c it meant Shea was starting and Wootton was brought into the inside where he has no business being.

    When Pep was unable to get pressure they started using him in ways to make open up the rest of the DL, but that isn't working either. So then they had to goto blitzing LB's, which opens up the middle, which means the DB's are now exposed, and they have not responded yet.

    I don't buy the BU thing, ya his leadership is lost, but his play was far worse then anything we've seen from DJ or Bositc last year. Right now it's all on the lack of passrush.
  3. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    After losing Jay, the offense played pretty heroically IMO and kept us in the game. The defense is just plain bad. Old and Bad. The front four is horrific as are the safeties. Time to blow this unit up IMO. This offseason I think its a foregone conclusion that Pep will be gone as will quite a few others if an option presents itself. Unless we transition to a 3-4 Shea is useless and we should just see what we can get back for the wasted first round pick. Said it the day he was drafted and I stick to it now; Shea is a 3-4 player only he is a 50/70 Jack linebacker and has no place as a down 5/7. Never has, never will so in our 4-3 system he will continue to be worthless.
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  4. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    Jimmors is right that our problems have been there all year. The injuries just made it all progressively worse for reasons you say. The thing with Urlacher is that he did lose a step, but his signal calling was invaluable in disguising the defenses and getting all 11 guys playing as a cohesive unit. This season they look disorganized. I don't know how much of that to credit to Marineli> Tucker or loss of Urlacher. Probably both.
  5. Rogelio

    Rogelio Veteran

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    Look, we can say that Jay is an imbecile until the 4th quarter, when he becomes a genius. We can say that the other teams are building such gigantic leads that they play prevent the entire 4th quarter, but the only game that was remotely close to that was the Detroit game. I think that the play-calling has been HORRIBLE in the early part of games. Every game thus far has had bad play-calling at the start. The entire sequence after the first INT in the Giants game, including going for it on 4th, was mind-bogglingly dumb.

    Unless we hear that Jay is audibling out of Trestman's calls early, I have to think that the play-calling has a huge deal to do with our struggling. I don't buy that Jay suddenly figures things out in the 4th quarter. I think the problem is either 1) Trestman is bad at his "first 25" plays which he plans out before games; or 2) Trestman is just awful at watching gametape and understanding what defenses will throw at them, so he does terribly at the start of the game, but he is able to make adjustments at halftime. Look, the biggest difference to me was that we made no effort to establish the run in the first half, while we pounded the ball early in the third quarter. I doubt Trestman was calling runs and Jay said "fuck it, I'm throwing."

    I think Trestman is a good offensive mind. I trust him and hope that in time he will improve his play-calling. But if Jay is such a huge problem early, while being great late, it is his responsibility to figure out what is causing that issue and remedy it.
  6. PhilM

    PhilM Rookie

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    What I learned is that McCown looked very comfortable in that offense once he got going. Cutler still seems like he's overthinking things and being too tentative.

    I've also learned that the "Cover 2" has long overstayed its welcome. Other teams know how to exploit the Cover 2. This is a Lovie carryover and really needs to end. It doesn't matter if the players still want it or some of the coaches still want it. It's a tired old song and is especially ineffective with our lackluster DL.

    Since our defensive personnel situation isn't going to improve anytime soon, changing our scheme seems like the logical thing to do. Although that seems really unlikely at this point in the season.
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  7. Jimmors

    Jimmors The Rhymenoceros Staff Member SuperFan

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    yeah, Urlacher lost a step, so his athleticism was not as good as it used to be (sideline to sideline). Still, he brought years of experience and leadership to the table, and Briggs is a piss poor substitute for a Defensive general leading the troops. Im just going to guess that our Defense is going to be in rebuild mode, and hopefully Briggs can be the team leader until 2015 (when his contract is up), and *hopefully* by then Bostic will become the new leader with 2 solid seasons under his belt.

    As far as the pass rush goes...i think losing Izzy was HUGE. To start the season, that was basically the only missing piece that wasnt here this year...melton, paea, peppers, shea were all still here, and yet the DL has failed to get pass rush even in the first few games. Losing Izzy, and Peppers not playing to par is probably why our DL is faulty, and losing Melton definitely didnt help matters any.
  8. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Nice straw man argument. "Cutler defenders" are completely oblivious to the point being made that this offense is insufficient, in and of itself.
  9. tey216

    tey216 Rookie

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    I think as far as the offense not getting going to late in games... I think its a combination of conservative play calling and Jay Cutler trying not to do too much... Maybe it has something to do with him being in a contract year... I don't know... But its a team that seems scared to let it all go with those weapons until they absolutely have too late in games... The offense has the weapons to do that all game. Maybe Trestman doesn't trust Cutler not to turn the ball over until he has no choice... I think the offensive weapons and the offensive scheme can put up large amount of points... I hate to say it but it is possible that Cutler for one reason or the other "MAY" be holding the offense back... Or Trestmans lack of trust in him... McCown ran the offense the way you thought it would run... But we'll see what happens next game...
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  10. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Jay Cutler may be guilty of a lot of things, but changing the play to a more conservative one is not one of them.
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  11. Styx

    Styx Rookie

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    What i learned in this game was Wooton on the 3 tech works to get the pressure we need,Bostic is gonna be fine starting at MLB,Major Wright is no where to be seen,and the Redskins don't have much to offer but broking plays and Hail Marys that seem to of went there way this time very frustrating game to watch.
  12. Styx

    Styx Rookie

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    We did just fine on Offence that is our identity and i was able to see that this game.McCown looked like Cutler tbh i don't see us throwing a ton of money his way.Meryweather is a joke of a football player and Hall was looking real elite.
  13. GermansbombedPH

    GermansbombedPH Pro-Bowler

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    Our secondary is still used to the Tampa 2... that's not how Tucker works. Conte isn't a fit for this D any more. I'm not sold und bringing back Jennings too
  14. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I wouldn't say JC looks stupid until the 4th, but he's not coming out of the gate running. As for how much Jay is changing plays, well a few weeks ago it was mentioned that he had changed around 40% of the plays. Again I think once McCown came in, instead of calling out of a lot of plays he just ran what was given, I THINK, that you saw a more true idea of what Trestman's O should look like. I just hope we don't have to go into GB w/McCown, GB will eat him up.
  15. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/9856156/chicago-bears-search-answers-jay-cutler-groin-injury

    Searching for answers
    Bears face serious questions in wake of Jay Cutler's groin injury
    Updated: October 20, 2013, 9:57 PM ET
    By Jon Greenberg | ESPNChicago.com

    Jay Cutler left with a groin injury and Roy Helu rushed for three touchdowns, including the game winner, to lift the Redskins to a 45-41 win against the Bears.Tags: Bears, Redskins, Roy Helu, Jay Cutler, Josh McCown,Martellus Bennett, Aldrick Robinson
    LANDOVER, Md. -- Normally loquacious with detailed opening statements, Chicago Bearshead coach Marc Trestman opened his postgame news conference with a call for questions.

    Here's the catch: He didn't have an answer to the most important one.

    Trestman was vague, but presumably honest, about the state of Jay Cutler's -- wince -- injured groin on Sunday afternoon, after the quarterback was knocked out of the game in the second quarter in the Bears' wild 45-41 loss to Washington.


    "He's got a groin," Trestman said, channeling his inner Dave Wannstedt. "He's been evaluated. He'll be evaluated when we get back and we'll know more in the next couple days. It's a groin. It's not a knee, it's not an ankle, it's not a hip. It's a groin injury and it'll have to be evaluated. He'll get an MRI tomorrow."

    Yes, Cutler has a groin and the Bears have a big, big problem if he's out. Josh McCown for a half is great. Josh McCown for a season is a sign to focus on the Bulls.

    Just when Derrick Rose's knee issues seem over, now we've got another famous body part to worry about.

    And, oh yeah, Lance Briggs and Charles Tillman were knocked out of the game too, which was pretty critical considering the Redskins won the game on a four-play, 65-yard drive with them on the sidelines.

    Trestman sounded like a Chicago politician when asked about the defensive leaders' injuries.

    "I can't remember," he said. "Doctors did talk to me, but I don't remember what [the injuries] were, actually."

    Good time for amnesia. Better time for a bye week.

    From players to fans, it was jarring to see Cutler lying on the ground grabbing at his side with about 10 minutes to play in the second quarter, as Redskins defensive end Chris Bakercelebrated his sack by pantomiming reeling in a big fish.

    We all remember the Caleb Hanie era.

    Here's the truth about Cutler, whose toughness is unquestioned from Lake Forest to Blue Island. When Cutler gets popped, he usually pops back up, doing that shoulder twitch thing and looking to the sideline for the next play. The guy has experience dusting off sacks, after all.

    "Yeah, you know usually if he gets hit, he's getting back up," left tackle Jermon Bushrodsaid. "When I first looked at him, he was down on the ground for four or five seconds, and I figured something was wrong. I'm going to pray for him. Because he's a tough guy and I'm hoping everything is going to work out."


    Receiver Earl Bennett: "Anytime you see '6' down, he's one of those guys who pop up because he's real tough. He's one of the toughest players I've ever played with in my years playing college with him and in the NFL. It's tough to see him go down. I just pray he's all right and hope we can get him back."

    McCown: "I was bummed, said a prayer, got my helmet on and got some throws and got ready to play."

    After the injury, Cutler hobbled off the field and made his way onto a cart, where he was videotaped grimacing in severe pain. After the game, he was spotted sitting gingerly on a cart ride to the team bus, which could mean nothing. We don't want to put the cart before the quarterback, of course.

    With no other backup -- Bennett is the emergency quarterback -- ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that Jordan Palmer, who was in training camp with the Bears, is coming to Chicago to sign with the team.

    Here's the good news. After the week off, the Bears play Monday night game in Green Bay. Given his foibles at Lambeau Field, it won't be a shame if Cutler misses that one.

    There's no point in looking forward to the schedule when we don't know the extent of Cutler's injury, but the past hasn't been kind to a Cutler-less Bears team.

    In 2011, when Hanie replaced Cutler, the Bears went 1-5 and missed the playoffs after a 7-3 start. That led to general manager Jerry Angelo's firing and was the harbinger to Lovie Smith's dismissal.

    This time, it looks like the Bears are slightly more prepared. But the jury is still out.

    McCown played exceptionally well in relief of Cutler, completing 14 of 20 passes for 204 yards and a touchdown, and nearly led the Bears to a win. Then again, Hanie almost led the Bears to a playoff victory over Green Bay when Cutler got knocked out of the 2011 playoff game against Green Bay.

    But besides experience, and just being a better thrower than Hanie, McCown also hasBrandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery and Martellus Bennett, not to mention a healthy Matt Forte, a pretty strong line and Trestman himself.

    Hanie had none of those things. But McCown has limitations, whereas Cutler had strengths.

    McCown laughed when someone asked him about differences between his game and Cutler's.

    "Have you seen him throw?" McCown said. "There's a difference in velocity in our throws when Jay throws it and I throw it."

    McCown said he can't "push the ball down the field" like Cutler, who makes plays "that don't enter my mind to do." Still, Trestman liked how McCown controlled the offense in the second half, hitting quick slants with precision.

    Cutler is a big fan of McCown, he pushed for his return as backup, and the feeling is mutual. While McCown is four years older than Cutler, he speaks about him in awed tones.

    "He's very sharp to be around," McCown said. "I learn a lot from him, just watching him play and some of the things that he does."

    McCown added, "There is a standard that he sets and you want to hold to it."

    He did that and more.

    On the Bears' go-ahead drive late in the fourth quarter, he hit Marshall for 28 yards and Jeffery for 35 yards on consecutive plays, before connecting with Martellus Bennett on a 7-yard touchdown pass.

    The Bears scored on four of five second-half drives and the outlier was a Robbie Gouldmissed field goal.

    "I thought we played more the type of offense we need to play on a regular basis, on a consistent basis," Trestman said.

    Meanwhile, Cutler didn't get off to a good start. He was 3-for-8 for 28 yards with an interception that was returned for a touchdown. Early in the second quarter, Alshon Jeffery bobbled a high pass that ended up in Brian Orakpo's hands and he took it 29 yards to give the Redskins a 17-10 lead.


    With Cutler out, Trestman called more runs as he also wanted to keep a tired defense off the field. The Redskins had a 22:01-7:49 edge in time of possession in the first half.

    Forte had a 50-yard touchdown run on the Bears' second drive of the second half and a 6-yard touchdown run early in the fourth quarter. He finished with 91 yards and three touchdowns, but failed to get out of bounds on a key play in the last drive of the game, which ended with a McCown sack as he waited futilely for someone to get into the end zone.

    The Bears were down after the loss -- several special teams players were angry they got an offsides call on a successful Robbie Gould onside kick -- but the typically voluble Brandon Marshall wasn't in the mood to talk about the team's mood.

    "You ask me about moods? I don't know about moods," he said. "This is professional football. You know, it happens. You lose some and you win some. You make play, sometimes you don't. This is professional sports. Guys get paid to get up and dust themselves off."


    Biggs is on 670, here are his comments:

    Briggs has a shoulder inj, and the amount of yards the team gave up AFTER he left was amazing, Wash was averaging over 10 yards an attempt, Briggs and Tillman combined was just way to much to overcome, D was playing poorly before, but that's a death knell.

    Didn't really get into Marshal/Jeffrey inj's.

    Wright was actually replaced by Steltz in the game, that should tell you how good that guy is, Conte is bad; but no DB's are going to look good when the pass rush isn't getting to the qb.
  16. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4687357/hester-ties-sanders-mark

    CHICAGO BEARS


    Devin Hester ties Deion Sanders' mark
    October, 20, 2013
    7:30 PM ET
    By Jeff Dickerson | ESPNChicago.com

    LANDOVER, Md. -- Devin Hester showed reporters the text message he received from Hall of Famer and friend Deion Sanders on Sunday after Hester’s 81-yard punt return touchdown moved him into a tie with Sanders for the most career regular season return scores in league history with 19.

    “I have to check my phone. Do you all want to see?” Hester said to the media. “Yep, Prime Time (texted). There it is right there. It means a lot to equal and pass the marks of a Hall of Famer.”

    Technically, Hester scored his 20th career return touchdown on Sunday, if you take into account his 92-yard kickoff return at the beginning of Super Bowl XLI.

    Sunday's return versus the Washington Redskins marked the first special teams touchdown for Hester since 2011. The three-time Pro Bowl selection had been somewhat quiet the previous four games after exploding for a franchise-record 249 kickoff return yards in Week 2 against the Minnesota Vikings.

    “It feels great to get an opportunity to showcase that we still have it,” Hester said. “We had opportunities today. The defense set them back and forced them to have to punt. They couldn’t do a pooch-punt…we knew they had to kick it out pretty deep. We took advantage of it.

    We knew from the last couple weeks that they had struggled on special teams. So we figured the chances of me touching the ball today were few and far between. But we knew that it I did touch the ball, we had to make them pay.”


    Not enough people talking about this. Hester looked pretty good yesterday, and tied history. I honestly thought his TD days were over, but that was a hell of a PR.
  17. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Veteran

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    Most points scored by Bears 41 points to still lose the game 1st time in history for Bears. It's still all Jays fault what a clown, now I understand your avatar picture.
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  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    How many of those points were scored by J b/c he drove the field and scored w/out the help of a D TO or shortened field? Zero you say? Ya JC obviously has no blame.
  19. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

    1. Person A has position X.
    2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
    3. Person B attacks position Y.
    4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
  20. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Veteran

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    Your entire argument is pointless. I assure you the focus in the coming weeks by the Bears will not be on the O. I don't care what QB you bring in here with that D every QB is doomed to fail. I hope your next QB can score 50+ points a game because if he doesn't it will be his fault too. Side note this will make you happy Jay even if out for the rest of this year will still be with the Bears next year guaranteed. Luckily Trestman and Emery know what will need to be fixed next year just like they did this year with the O.

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