Chi v Was what we learned

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by riczaj01, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Well I agree w/the power run game, well at least more run game to eat up more clock and try and keep the ball out of the opposing O's hands; that's the best way to keep the D safe.

    if over the by week they bring this guys in to compete and they actually outplay the other guys, more power to them, but until that happens I'm going to let the guys that are playing play and assume the coaches know best.
  2. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    I don't think you are getting my point. Let's us assume that the coaches are gods who never make mistakes, I know that is B,S., but I will concede it for the sake of argument. My point is that if your starters suck (like ours), the opponents are going to wear them down with long drives, and there is only so much the offense can do to protect them. So, unless we can throw some fresh bodies in there to keep them rested through 3 quarters, they are going to be exhausted when we need to stop the final drive with the game on line. The worse your defense is playing, the more you need a "all hands on deck" strategy.
  3. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I gotcha, I just don't think a O minded HC like Trestman is going to sacrafice his O players for added D guys; although you might well be right and he'll have no choice.
  4. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    Those 3rd string offensive players aren't getting any playing time, either. So he wouldn't be sacrificing much in that respect. But he would never do it, because almost everybody would criticize him.

    He should at least activate CornWash,damn it! I guarantee you that Lacy will run past/over McClellin next game.
  5. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I'd have to look, but normally you only have 6 active OL'men on the active roster, I'd be stunned if they have more(outside Ebon who is getting playing time as a "TE"). Normally you only have 1 spare T and one spare G/C. You cannot afford NOT to have those extra 2 guys sitting on the sidelines.
  6. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    Briggs is out for at least 6 weeks. That creates an active slot for CornWash.

    What about Wilson. Rosario, Weems, Ford? You can safely replace any of them with more defense.
  7. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    No Briggs being out creates a slot for whoever the next LB is. I would have been happy w/Weems being cut last year so fine w/me. But you do need guys on the ST's to play, and Ford and Wilson are doing that. Rosario is now the backup TE....oh and supposedly they are calling up Fendi.
  8. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    Already have Costanzo, Franklin, Bostic,Anderson active and playing LB. That's enough. K. Greene is possible, I guess,but I don't know his status.

    Help on DL is more critical. Activate CornWash,damn it! Activate and play all defensive players and substitute them for any of these 3rd string offensive players on ST that become inactivated. Give Hester a box of chocolates -- we have higher priorities.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  9. Rogelio

    Rogelio Veteran

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    Bull. You said you heard a quote from Trestman saying something along the lines that he didn't have to get approval for the play. Yet I didn't hear a furor about it or see front page articles about that. The comment was either a joke or taken out of context. Look, we know that the media likes to stir the pot in general, and has had a particular dislike for Cutler since he got here. If there was anything to that statement, the press would have followed up on it, and then hammered "Jay calling own plays hurts team" into the ground. Trestman knows that. If he thought Cutler was audibling too much and hurting the team, he can easily go public with it, which would be pretty much the last straw for Jay in terms of public opinion. Trestman would have a new QB next season.

    So, outside of one quote which was likely taken out of context, there has been NOTHING suggesting that Jay is ruining this great master plan. No seeds planted or "anonymous sources" telling the media that Jay isn't listening to coaching. All we've heard is that Jay is receptive and has "bought in." So I will continue saying that's not true. And furthermore, if Jay WAS audibling out of runs, I doubt he would be calling freaking 3 yard pass plays. Yeah, those really beef up his stats.
  10. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Rog, it was played on 670 the score multiple times yesterday. Trestman said it, and people on the the radio talked about it yesterday. That is not taking it out of context.

    Sorry you don't like what it suggests, but at the end, it's just what it suggests. But it has multiple suggestions and you are centering on only the JC neg.

    It could also mean that McCown doesn't get as much leeway, or want as much.

    It could also mean that McCown is more limited therefore the gameplan has to be simplified.

    It could also mean what you are suggesting, that Trestman is giving multiple plays that JC's okay w/and JC is audibling at the line to the wrong one.

    It could also mean all of them.
  11. Rogelio

    Rogelio Veteran

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    It is taken out of context if it isn't accompanied by follow-up quotes asking exactly which one of the situations you mentioned it fell under. If the reporters thought it was a serious comment, they would have asked for clarification. Maybe they did ask, but it answers didn't make the Score's soundbite, I don't know. I don't listen to the Score, so I can't comment on what they discussed. But perusing the Tribune and Sun Times stories, along with what I've seen on other websites, there's not really conversation about it. There might be a few articles which mention/i] the comment, but no headlines. IF that was said in a serious tone, there would have been half a dozen follow-up questions asking for clarification. That would be a gigantic story. Radio blowhards who each have about 20 hours worth of Bears talk to fill each week may have talked about it, but it wasn't news. That quote, along with the implications, absoultely would be a huge news story. And like I said, if Trestman thought for a second that Jay was fucking up audibles and costing the team, he would let that leak from other sources, address it publically and drive Jay out of town. He hasn't done any of that.

    Regardless of the true meaning, it's a gigantic jump from "Jay has some leeway with audibles which McCown doesn't" and "Jay is ignoring Trestman and calling horrible plays at the start of each game."
  12. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    It was a statement by the HC, who is also the HC. It's not taken out of context, could it be unclear, sure, but not out of context.

    OR maybe it was a quick quip in a long statement(as I stated) and no one picked up on it, or were busy writing other things about the D problems, the Cutler inj, the Briggs inj, the Tillman inj, the Loss to a woefull Wash team, Forte's big day etc. There was a lot to write about yesterday, and it's not all Trestman said about the game or about McCown or Cutler. It's one small comment in a long line of storylines that needed to be told. One station, hell ESPN might have had it also, but I wasn't listening to them yesterday, picked up on.

    No one said Jay's ignoring Trestman and calling horrible plays. That's YOUR leaping to a conclusion.
  13. motownbear

    motownbear derp daderp daderpidity derp Staff Member Staff Member

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    one thing I learned and you can probably add this to what is the plan on O.......is Forte is having one bad ass season yet YET why wasnt he the focal point of the offense from the get go? Why cant we use the run to set up the offense for the entire game?

    my second thing is shea...........could you just use him differently please? Like for real why not? Cant let pride get in the way thats a big reason why lovie never made it
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  14. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Arkush: Bears' defense gets 'F' for game it gave away
    By HUB ARKUSH - harkush@shawmedia.com - Monday, October 21, 2013 6:04 p.m. CDT

    Washington Redskins tight end Jordan Reed pulls away from Chicago Bears outside linebacker Lance Briggs (55) and inside linebacker Jon Bostic (57) during the first half of a NFL football game in Landover, Md., Sunday, Oct. 20, 2013. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
    Sometimes, this job stinks. Not only did the Bears' performance in their 45-41 loss to the Redskins not get any better the second, third or fourth time I watched it, it actually seemed to keep getting worse.
    As much as I’d love to throw kudos at a Bears offense that scored 41 points, it was quite awful for the first third of the game prior to Jay Cutler getting hurt, and didn’t get much better until after halftime.
    Hardest to watch is a Bears defense that is historically bad just one season after being among the five best in the league, a position it had occupied for most of the past decade and a half.
    One of the best grades of the day will go to the quarterback position, a solid B. I actually gave an A to Josh McCown but a D to Cutler.
    Let’s forget Cutler’s horrible start, for now, with the news that he’s out a minimum of four weeks with a muscle tear in his groin. There’s no point in kicking the guy while he’s down.
    The story was McCown’s ability to execute the offense in the second half with his head, arm and legs. I had assumed the Bears were toast if McCown ever had to come off the bench. We’ll have to wait now to see what happens in Green Bay, after the Packers have a week to prepare for him, but his performance in Washington was great under the circumstances.

    Running back gets a B–, a B+ for what it did show and a C– for what it didn’t. Matt Forte’s 91 yards and a touchdown on 16 carries and two receptions for 18 more yards are a nice day’s work. His 50-yard touchdown was one of two key turning points in the game. The Bears were done until Forte took off.
    But why was Forte only able to manage 2.7 yards a pop on his other 15 carries, only targeted three times in the passing game and finishing with a total of just 18 touches? And where is Michael Bush?
    Playing in the same shootout as the Bears, the Redskins handed the ball to Alfred Morris 19 times and Roy Helu 11.

    Tight end Martellus Bennett gets a B– and a Purple Heart. Yes, he’s playing through multiple injuries and giving everything he has without a word of complaint, and a touchdown is a touchdown. But one catch on three targets and limited effectiveness blocking just isn’t enough.
    The offensive line earned a B– as well, and it suffered more than anyone from the third and fourth pass through the tape. Yes, they are greatly improved over recent years. But each quarterback was dumped once, McCown was forced to move much more than you’d like and the running game can’t live on one or two nice runs a game. Individual linemen are losing more one–on–one matchups than you’d like.
    To go position–by–position on defense is a waste of time. The defense gets an F for failed miserably in a game the Bears win with any kind of effort at all on this side of the ball.
    As usual, Lance Briggs was near–heroic prior to his injury, Corey Wootton is doing what he’s asked at the three–technique and Tim Jennings and “Peanut” Tillman, when he was on the field, weren’t terrible.
    That’s it. Everybody else did enough to earn a stunk, and the safeties were worse than that
    .
    Even special teams were a mixed bag. They get a B for Devin Hester’s record-tying punt return touchdown and Adam Podlesh’s excellent punting. If anyone’s earned a mulligan, it’s Robbie Gould. But you can’t miss inside the 35 in the NFL, and Eric Weems offsides on an onside kick was crushing.
    Sadly, this game will be remembered as one the defense gave away.
    • Hub Arkush covers the Bears for Shaw Media and HubArkush.com. Write to him at harkush@shawmedia.com.


    I'm one of the few that likes Hub, I like that he's critical and not a homer, even if heavy handed at times.

    Did he forget about the other WR's? Jeffery and Marshal both had good games.
    Forte had 3 TD's Hub, not 1. I think 3 TD's earns more then a B to C grade, escpecially when you are doing it w/the backup qb making you the center of attention.
    And if you are going to knock him for 2.7 ypc, why not knock the OL he's running behind? Neither if which would be fair btw, the run game got less then 10 carries in the 1st half, and if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that Forte didn't even get back to back runs until the 3rd qtr.
    Why no grade for the coaches?
    I think he's being generous to Tillman, but okay whatever.
    He's dead on w/his assessment of the O and the first half. They were awful, 10 of the 17 1st half points came off a D stop and short field, and a D turn over, the other 7 came off a Devin Hester PR, meaning the O scored a whopping 24 points on their own.
  15. Rogelio

    Rogelio Veteran

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    You said it! You said that my joke about Cutler supposedly audibling out of runs and picking crappy short pass plays was funny and true. You said that Cutler is the reason they haven't run the ball in the beginning of games and the reason the offense has gotten off to terrible starts.
  16. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    It was funny and was true, now it's sad.

    I never said they don't run the ball enough at the beggining of games or is the reason for terrible starts is all on JC. I said AFTER the comment it's worth questioning, and it's possible. There is a big difference.
  17. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/

    RISING
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] 1. Josh McCown, QB: Losing Jay Cutler for a minimum of four weeks because of a torn groin muscle is a tough pill to swallow, but McCown at least gives the Bears a chance on offense. McCown gave the Bears all they could ask for against the Washington Redskins with completing 14-of-20 passes for 204 yards and one touchdown. Can he do it again? That remains to be seen. But McCown is an intelligent player with 33 career NFL starts under his belt. We should all know by now that starting experience is a big factor when it comes to a No. 2 quarterback. McCown can still throw the ball reasonably well and has plenty of skill-position talent, plus a decent offensive line surrounding him. To steal a phrase from ex-Bears general manager Jerry Angelo: The Bears aren't likely to fall off the cliff with McCown at quarterback.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] 2. Lance Briggs, LB: Briggs was all over the field making plays before he suffered a small fracture in his left shoulder that will shut him down for about six weeks. Briggs had eight tackles, one tackle for loss and two passes defended before he left the game. The veteran linebacker has performed at a Pro Bowl level this season, topping the team in tackles and tackles for loss, while tying for the team lead in sacks and forced fumbles. For as bad as things were on defense before Briggs got hurt, what is it going to look like now without him? Scary.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] 3. Devin Hester, KR/PR: Hester is dangerous when he's confident. The hope is he can parlay his 81-yard punt return touchdown -- tying Deion Sanders for the most regular-season return scores in NFL history with 19 -- in Week 7 into more scores and long returns in the coming weeks. With the defense full of holes and Cutler on the shelf, the Bears will need points from their special teams. Hester really has a shot to help save the day -- if teams kick to him. Opponents will no doubt continue to try and avoid Hester, but as he proved in Washington, it only takes one mistake or bad kick and he can take it to the house. Also, field position will be at a premium with McCown at the helm. Hester can help in that area, too.

    FALLING
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] 1. Mel Tucker, DC: With all due respect to Tucker, a 16-year coaching veteran and former collegiate defensive back at the University of Wisconsin, a confused and agitated fan base no longer wants to hear about the "next man up mentality," "pad level," or "the collective group effort." It's time for Tucker to start sounding like a defensive coordinator who is capable of leading the Bears out of this mess, as daunting a task it might be. Tucker doesn't personally owe the media anything, but how can reporters assigned to cover a team offer any sort of insight into Tucker's defensive philosophies or coaching style when every week during his limited media availability he talks in bland generalities and clichés? The Bears don't do Tucker any favors by preventing their assistant coaches from talking after games, but Tucker needs to use whatever opportunity he has to convince people that he is not destined to be the Terry Shea of Marc Trestman's first coaching staff. In case you need a refresher course on recent Bears history, Shea was fired after one season on the job as Lovie Smith's offensive coordinator in 2004 when his unit finished dead last in total yards, passing yards and points scored. Through seven games, Tucker's defense is ranked No. 26 in total defense and No. 28 in points allowed, with much better players than Shea ever had to work with.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] 2. Shea McClellin, DE: I feel bad for McClellin. When one of the greatest linebackers of the last generation, Brian Urlacher, tells ESPN 1000's "Waddle & Silvy Show" that McClellin is miscast as a 4-3 defensive end and better suited to be a 3-4 outside linebacker -- then you know that McClellin is out of place in the Bears' defense. McClellin's 56 snaps against the Redskins were at times painful to watch. His struggles are only heightened by the fact that the Bears really have nobody else to play the position now that Corey Wootton has been forced to move inside to defensive tackle because of injuries to Henry Melton and Nate Collins. McClellin needs to be a situational player to have any sort of impact, but injuries make that impossible. He needs to play. But mark my words: McClellin will eventually leave the Bears and sign with a team that presents him with a better defensive fit for his talents. Once that happens, McClellin will go on to be an adequate defensive starter of the next six to eight years. But the odds of that happening in Chicago seem remote, unless the Bears undergo a dramatic shift in their defensive philosophy in the offseason.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] 3. Chris Conte, S: Competition brings out the best in all of us. It's probably time for the Bears to sprinkle safeties Anthony Walters or Craig Steltz into the equation to try and break Conte out of his funk. Conte is talented, but he seems to lacking somewhat in the confidence department. Conte has had several massive collisions in recent weeks trying to tackle running backs with a full head of stream in the open field. Maybe those collisions have chipped away at his confidence. Putting some pressure on Conte to keep his job could result in the safety elevating his game, a la punter Adam Podlesh who had to save his roster spot a couple of weeks ago after a rough outing against the Detroit Lions. Podlesh responded to the challenge. Perhaps Conte does the same
  18. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    [McClellin's 56 snaps against the Redskins were at times painful to watch. His struggles are only heightened by the fact that the Bears really have nobody else to play the position now that Corey Wootton has been forced to move inside

    Nobody? I can think of somebody.
  19. MikeGolf97

    MikeGolf97 Rookie

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    Is it to soon to can Mel Tucker? he brought his loser defense from the all mighty Jacksonville to chicago and look what we end up with? Jacksonvilles defense.
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  20. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    The run blocking needs a lot of improvement. Hub is 100% correct. The line will have a few nice run blocking plays a game, but overall they are not getting it done. I don't see the OL helping Forte much at all. He's getting his yards on his own, for the most part. The WR's blocking is a pleasant surprise though.
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