Chicago BEARS defense ... back on track or recurring future scumbags?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by jackiejokeman, May 15, 2014.

  1. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    To equate the Cutler injury to what happened on defense isn't fair. If we lost just one key player on defense that'd be something. I understand injuries happen but if were to lose Garza, Slausen, Long, Marshall, Forte and say Bennett for all/most of the season while being restricted to using Tice's offense and Trestman still put together a top 15 offense then we're talking about a special coach. I think Trest is more likely than Tucker to do this but that's also why he's a HC. I think it was stupid to make Tucker stick with Lovie's defense when it was obviously starting to falter with Lovie and we didn't have the personnel to execute it the way you need to. Pep fell off even before injuries and we didn't have Urlacher back deep to mask the inefficiencies of the scheme that isn't Tucker's. Like I said.. Trest loses all those players I mentioned and is handicapped to someone elses offensive scheme.. then we can talk.

    It's Tucker's job to develop the depth to be ready right now? I thought that was more of a positional coach thing but even so, I don't expect anyone to have 2 rookie LB's ready to put an entire defense that's been decimated by injuries on their shoulders. It's not like it was just LB's coming down and the rookies had to come in.. the rookies came in after the defense had gone to shit and all the wheels had fallen off. All the pieces that made that D go were gone. No DC in the NFL that I know of could have handled all those injuries coupled with the talent available below them.
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  2. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    And as a disclaimer I'm in no way trying to say Tucker is an amazing coach or the savior of this defense. But I can't for the life of me form an opinion of a guy who had to deal with that. If Trest had to go through what he went through I wouldn't judge him either. Maybe if he handled it better we could have been the 28th rated defense rather than the 30th, but I don't think we had enough talent post-injuries to justify anyone being able to make that defense into something respectable.
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  3. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    I agree with everything you said Chi66. All the complied injuries are greater than losing Cutler. That being said, losing a QB for a completely unproven and underwhelming (at the time) backup can be devastating as well. My point is there wasn't even a hiccup. But what I agree with most is the point that Tucker was forced to keep lovie's defense. If it weren't for that then I would still be kicking and screaming that he is still our DC. Frankly, let the man do his job. Take the handcuffs off and let him work. Looks to be what we are doing so now its do or die. I really hope he can do it but bottom line is there are no excuses this year. Yep, there will be injuries and Tillman, DJ and Briggs are at the top of the liability list. He has been given enough talent and depth to make it work so now the ball is in his court. Hope we see a guy who can be our DC for the long haul, or even does such a great job we lose him because he gets a HC offer, and not because we had to fire him.
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  4. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    Definitely no excuses this year. I love that Emery brought in Paul P, little reminder that hey Tucker.. sorry about what happened last season.. but lets see some results. The training wheels are off and you have free reign of the defense. It's now completely his defense and is teeming with talent, young and old. If he doesn't produce a good defense this year, I'm positive we've seen the last of him. I'm really hoping he comes in and gives the Bears a top 15 D to go with this juggernaut of an offense we've developed. As you said, injuries happen.. but barring too many key injuries I think this could be the best trio (O, D, ST) that we've had in years. Maybe not our best D, or our best ST, but the best of those two we've had with an offense like this. I want to see some domination in all three phases.
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  5. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    It shouldn't be like last year where our offense bails out our defense. Or what we've been used to were the offense sputters all game and the D has to win it for us with the help of the special teams. This should be a balanced team that compliments each other. The defense forces a three and out and the offense strikes and puts points on the board. The defense gives up a drive and the offense march on a long drive of their own and lets the defense rest so they're fresh all 4 quarters. If the opposing offense has a long field this defense has the talent to bully them. If this offense gets a short field it has the ability to strike quick. All the pieces are there for something special. I'm excited.
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  6. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    Chi, I think we are more on the same page as we originally thought. We view it from a bit of a different perspective but the main points and outlook on this season are pretty much parallel. Pas can take over the DC IMO if we need him to even in the middle of the year. I think his presence should light a fire under Tucker. I love that Tuck came out of the box last year and I love the fire that he has. I don't hate the guy and I don't want to see him fail out of spite. I hope that we see a guy that we are giving high praise too in a few months and that we are worried about another team snagging him for a HC job. But at the same time, I'm not willing to watch another season tank and another year shaved off our window of opportunity due to HIS unit.
  7. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    I think you're right, because that sounds about right to me. If the unit isn't living up to Emery (and our) standards then I have no problem with him pulling the plug on Tucker if he thinks that's what's wrong. Axing a coach in the season isn't always for the worse, look at the Ravens Super Bowl run. I'd love to be talking about Tucker as we talk about Kromer, but I'm open to the possibility we won't. I'm really pulling for the guy and when he was originally hired I thought he could be good for the team. This team has loads of talent but there's also an expiration date on quite a few of the pieces and it's a lot sooner than we'd like. There's a window here if we can get the most out of these guys and if Tucker isn't the man for the job then let's find someone who is. I really do hope Tucker is the man for the job though.

    Let's blow the Bills out of the water and keep the pedal to the floor all the way up to dominating Bridgewater or whomever in late December and beyond into playoffs. On paper this team has the pieces to make a run at the Lombardi Trophy, just need a little bit of luck and cooperation from the coaches. Time to make ESPN (and others) eat crow and show Rodgers how it feels to see someone else life that NFC North title on their way to playoffs. I'd love to have a game where we just smack around the Packers. I know they're a great team but I'm just so beyond ready to reclaim that title and do it in a dominating fashion.

    As I've said over and over.. the pieces are there. This rookie class could be integral to our run if they can live up to their potential. I think Vereen could provide someone who can be held accountable. Carey can provide more than our previous back-ups did and have himself a decent year spelling for Forte. Sutton and Ferguson can work into rotation and both bring great things to the table. O'Donnell can give us quality punts and someone who's going to help our field position, something that is huge in the NFL. And finally, Fuller can hopefully provide a quality NB who can contend with all these 3-4 WR sets that the NFL is in love with. These guys don't have to be All-Pro Rookies.. but if they can add something to this team we can sure as hell use their help. Plus I'm really, really hoping that McClellin shines in his new position. That would really make this thing a hell of a lot easier. Imagine if he brings 1st round production to our LB corps? Maybe not.. but damn that'd be sweet.

    Nothing against Fales or Leno, I just hope neither see the field unless it's a blowout win and they're getting some game time.
  8. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Hall of Famer

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    Absolutely. And the fact that keeps getting passed over. The new guys did not get better. Ever. Possibly worse. Now that may have been the LB coach. I'm sure that was no small part due to him. So the year starts over, but I got my eye on Tucker, LOL
  9. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Yeah, the defense was not up to it's usual standards right from the start but to be honest because of no Marinelli and no Urlacher I expected some decline. Just not as much as it turned out to be rolling forward from there. To say the defense was just fine in the first two or three games is giving them far more credit than they deserve. There were several starters who weren't "on board" with the changeover and IMHO never were as the season dragged on either. Three of them are gone now.
  10. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    One thing I'm learning about Emery is that HE will not be the reason the team doesn't succeed. He will search every nook and cranny for players he believes can upgrade the team all the way from starters to third stringers. Unlike JA, lack of quality personnel won't be a problem and he has the blessings of the McCaskey's to spend the money.

    He really has brought in enough talent to make that defense a top ten ranked one again. Three new DEs who all rank in the top 20 in the NFL. A former All Pro NT. Two high draft picks for depth in the NT/DT rotation. Resigned two Pro Bowl CBs and drafted another who rated as one of the best. Bolstered the talent at Safety and was smart enough to bring DWill back just in case one of our youngsters can't handle MLB.

    There aren't a lot of glaring deficiencies any longer. Just a few questions marks. If Mel Tucker can't stop people from scoring with that bunch his career is about over. Failed DCs seldom get invited to interview for HC jobs. The pressure is on all of them, player and coaches, to turn that defense around very fast. I agree with what most every one has said about last year. If they'd have even been mediocre we could have been in the playoffs and contending.
  11. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    Tucker needs to make the defense work and show improvement, I do not believe anybody on this board does not support that. I also believe we have the players to be a top 10 potentially. With respect to last year you can not blame much on Tucker, he was hand tied with Lovie's defense and the players which we lost. Ratliff only played the last 4 weeks or so, and one of them was limited time. Melton was gone after week 3 or 4, and a week later Collins went down leaving us no 3 tech for most of the season. At nose tackle Peae was in and out much of the season with his nagging turf toe. His role is plug the middle but with Peppers mailing it in or age or whatever we had to move Wootton inside which only weakened the ability to get to the QB and contain the edges. We all know Shea was to light to hold the edge. So now that the line was decimated by injury we lost DJ a week or two after losing Collins forcing our young LB Bostic into action. With a decimated line the opponents guards were frequently on the LB blocking when they ran the ball. NEXT, Are you kidding me, Lance Briggs misses 8 weeks and returns week 14 if I remember correctly, suppose to have been six weeks stretches to 8, now we have no LB to get the young LBs into position, we have no line to keep the opponents from getting to are young LB.s and for good measure in wk 11 or 12 Peanut is put on IR. Hmmmm, Peppers who mailed it in because he had no help and Jennings were the only starters left who were key members of the Defense.

    We did not have sufficient depth which was a big reason for firing JA and bringing in Emery. The offense was so bad Emery concentrated on building it up for like 28th to top 5 in the league. Unfortunately 2 drafts were not enough time to strengthen the defense. Emery failed the defense as much if not more than Tucker in my opinion. I find it amazing we praise Emery, yes we ding him for Shea, but in general all on board and hang Tucker out to dry.

    I have no idea if he will be good or not but I also no after the injuries we gave him rookies, Basically college talent and asked him to beat the pros. I agree we did not get some of the improvement we would hope to see but those coaches have been replaced. I am looking forward to seeing the offseason improvement in the young LB's as they got some valuable experience, the coaches got lots of tape to work with them on improving there skills, we have a solid line mostly replacements from last yr which we all believe to be upgrades, so the oline will hopefully not be on the LB's so quickly. Peanut is back and we have a solid draft pick to keep him fresh and will hopefully show great ability as the Nickel Back. Last but not least Tucker gets to run his own Defensive scheme, which to many on the Defense will be the first time in there PRO Career they will not be playing Lovies scheme. This will come with some risk but the DLINE is mostly new and will not be effected so much, if anyone BEARS watching it may be Briggs, still injured and first time in a potentially new scheme.

    I just can not lay this one on Tucker as many of you have. Once again I have no idea how Tucker will do but want to give him a fighting chance before I start giving ultimatums and packing his bags. "My Bags are packed, I'm ready to go......... la la la. I'm leaving on a jet plane.... dont know if hell be back again."
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  12. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    I don't think anyone really disagrees he shouldn't be given a chance. But an extremely short leash would be wise IMO. If it looks anything remotely like last year then a change may be needed before another year goes down the drain and we are talking offseason on here before the new year.
  13. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Hall of Famer

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    short leash and a choker collar.
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  14. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    So what you're saying is, that all of the coaching and techniques Melton and Peppers have learned and used over their careers were wiped away in one off season by a new coach? I don't buy it.
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  15. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    To be fair if you want an equal comparison to what happened on defense, Cutler, Forte, Marshall, Jefferey, would be lost for the season or most of it, and Bennett would only play about half. THATS WHAT HAPPENED ON DEFENSE! Tell me what our offense with the great wizard Trestman would look like then? I can tell you...30th in the league.
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  16. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    And once again people...injuries, on the scale the defense incurred them last year, are not excuses...they are reasons. I've played the game...I've coached the game, it is what it is.
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  17. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    and he should be fired at the end of the season b/c(even though the positional coaches should have done it) his backups/scrubs weren't ready to play at or near pro bowl levels.
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  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    i'm obviously being saracastic btw. Trestman would get a huge pass, if he only lost Cutler and Marshal. But somehow Tucker is on a tight leash and a choker b/c he lost 3 pro bowlers and another handfull of starters.
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  19. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Amen Ric! I just don't know how a defense can lose that amount of talent and people expect a miracle to happen.
  20. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I know they were literally pulling guys off the street to play in the NFL and they just expected them to play like a top NFL player and not like a guy pulled off the street.

    And honestly by the end I think you saw a Def that was frusterated beat down and tired mentally and physically, it was like 11 Conte's out there.
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