CSN Chicago: Bears Should Go Safety Then DT.

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by BelieveInMonsters, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +250 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    71ß
    • Like Like x 1
  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    22,298
    Likes Received:
    2,826
    Ratings:
    +3,406 / 9 / -8
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,586ß
    As long as their is a DB there then ya probably.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Ratings:
    +1,914 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    Good. That probably means they'll do just the opposite. There is just as much second round and third round depth at Safety as there is at DT so that assumption on their part is false or really just an opinion with nothing to back it up. I can name just as many Safeties in those rounds as they can name 3 tech DTs.

    One other point I'd quarrel with is that neither Dix or Pryor could be describes as "elite" once compared with some of those taken more recently. That isn't my opinion. It's the opinion of the scouts and draftniks. Are they better than the next bunch. I don't know. One guy I read seems to think the Bears have Jimmie Ward ranked higher because of his speed, ball skills, and versatility.

    There is no doubt in my mind or that of others that Aaron Donald is an "elite" pass rusher and penetrating 3 tech DT. So much so that it's getting even more likely that he may not even be there when the Bears pick. If he is to pass on a player who can provide the impact he can both against the run and the pass would be a real miss in my book.

    Guys like him don't come around every draft and when they do they don't last long. The last really good one we got was drafted at #14 too. If we become a perennial playoff team like Emery expects we won't be drafting this low for quite some time so there's little chance we'd get a player like Donald even if there was one in every draft from next year on but there are always good Safeties available both in the draft and in FA. As far as their importance is concerned there must be a reason why DTs are one of the highest paid positions of a team and Safeties are one of the lowest.

    So that's my counter argument to drafting a Safety at #14 if Donald is still on the board. If he's not then maybe so but if there is another DT they feel rates higher don't be shocked of they take him either there or on a trade down into the 20s if they feel they can get Ward in the 2nd round or Bucannon there or in three. They are gonna fill that DT spot early if the player is there to do it with and whether I like it or not they may value Hageman far higher than Quarles if only for his potential.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,807
    Likes Received:
    631
    Ratings:
    +837 / 4 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    895ß
    I am still intrigued with a top CB playing the role. Dennard, Fuller, or Gilbert. RD 2 potentially Joyner or McGill. Safety alone does not excite me as much as having the future CB if we do it in rd 1.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +250 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    71ß
    I wouldn't mind if a CB were the #1 pick. IMO Gilbert is the only guy worthy of the #14 pick at Corner but he'll be long gone by then.

    Fuller has too many injury questions and Dennard is a later first round pick IMO.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,927
    Likes Received:
    429
    Ratings:
    +485 / 2 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    97ß
    I just don't think Donald will be there. Pryor I feel is going to be the best option we have after Dix and Donald are gone
    • Like Like x 1
  7. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +250 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    71ß
    If you think good Safeties are growing on trees in the draft and free agency then you're not paying attention. There is a shortage of good Safeties and the position is becoming more important than ever. Evidence of this is how much safeties were paid in free agency this year.

    I said this about Ward and I'll say it again. He's a "tweener" too small to play Safety and too slow to play corner. He's apparently not strong enough either evidenced by his combine-low 9 bench reps. Buccannon is a good player but he has far more question marks than Clinton-Dix or Pryor.

    Based on Emery's comments, he is looking at athletic ability first and position later. He is looking for guys who have the athletic ability to move around on defense and not get locked into one position like Donald.

    Also, the Bears have hinted at rotating defensive fronts. We still don't know what that means. We really don't know how much 3-tech their truly going to be using in 2014 yet. It wouldn't make any sense to draft a guy like Donald and then not even use him full time.

    With that said, if Donald is as rare a commodity as you're making him out to be (I don't believe he is) then this is a moot point because he'll be long gone before the #14 pick ever even rolls around anyway.

    I was right there with you on picking a DT in the draft a couple of months ago. I'm a true believer that the defensive line is the foundation of the defense. That was until they added a good rotation in Free Agency. At DT we have Ratliff, Collins, Houston, Idonije, and Paea We would be just fine with some good solid 2nd round depth at DT.

    What do we have at Safety? A big trash heap of hot garbage that's what. Mundy who is still a big question mark in his career, an injured Conte, and a bunch of guys who belong on special teams in Jennings, McCray, Steltz, and Martin.

    Pure common sense tells you that we're MUCH thinner at Safety than DT at this point. If we want to truly contend this coming season, we won't go into 2014 with the bad safeties we currently have and a project in the 2nd round or later against the Packers and Lions high-powered passing attacks.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,813
    Likes Received:
    1,403
    Ratings:
    +1,941 / 7 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,296ß
    A top S, LB, CB or DT are all very valuable commodities. They all perform functions that the team needs in order to give them an edge and win games. No one is as important as a QB and then a WR and then an OT, but teams usually do not let go of difference makers no matter where they play. The real question is which one is going to make the biggest difference. And that is a question that has elements of both the position, the player, and even the players and scheme surrounding them. The biggest wild card of all, is the human being trying to make that decision. It's very imprecise and a lot of luck enters into it before it's all over.
  9. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Ratings:
    +1,914 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    Fuller is the only one who really fits what they like in a CB but his size is a concern. He's barely tall enough and rangy and needs more bulk and muscle. I also don't think anyone, including Emery have him ranked at high at the #14 pick. If we plan on a CB to replace Peanut then let's take one whose more his size and physical. I may be way off base here but I see CB as more of where they go in round two or three depending on what they do in one and I still believe it will be a DT.

    If Donald is taken before #14 there's a chance they may trade back to buy and extra pick in two or early three but right now that's way too hard to project. Sitting at #14 they have a shot at some top guys so that pick deserves a premium in trade and if they can't get it I doubt they trade. They may take a player who doesn't quite rank that high but won't be there in round two. I think that was the basis for the Kyle Long pick. By the time the draft rolled around he was #3 on the OG list and wouldn't have lasted until our 2nd pick so even though he looked like a "reach" for Emery purposes he wasn't.

    Based purely on fit I think Donald is their first choice at DT and Hageman their second and if Donald is gone and they either can't trade back or the only offers would risk losing out on Hageman they may take their chances with him based on his upside.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Ratings:
    +1,914 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    No I'm paying a lot of attention to all of them which is what you aren't doing. You and others are fixated on two guys. Dix and Pryor and yet there isn't one scout or guru out there who believes these two are elite and have no holes in their game. There is no shortage of 2nd and 3rd round Safety prospects. Now whether it falls off after that is beside the point because I'll guarantee you they take one in the first three rounds.

    Forget Wards reps in the bench. The kid can hit, tackle and play the ball and probably plays 5-10 lbs heavier than he is. He's up to close to 200lbs now and only a few pounds lighter than Mike Brown was who is the closest I can come to comparing him to a former Bear. He's the fastest of the three we're talking about and fast enough to play NB. No one ever said he was a CB and as for his size the kid we picked up from GB weighs less than Ward. If Ward is gone of they prefer a bigger guy then Bucannon comes into play in two. You may see a huge difference between him and Pryor but I don't.

    Now let's talk about your point about what FA Safeties got this year. Only two got huge deals. Byrd and Ward. Byrd got it because he IS and elite player and neither Dix or Pryor or anyone else in this draft is at his level. Ward got it because Elway and the Broncos are willing to pay for top defensive players right now so they can WIN a SB before Manning crumbles to dust. They over paid for Ware and Talib too. They aren't gonna be embarrassed again like they were this year. They had the highest scoring offense in the NFL so what would they spend their cap $$$ on? It sure wasn't the offense. They even let their top RB go to free up space for those defensive acquisitions. These are also things I'm looking at that you aren't.

    We are just as thin at the 3 tech DT spot as we are at Safety and in Emery's own words it's THE most important position on the DLine. It's also the hardest on to find in FA which is why we didn't and Dallas gambled more on Melton than we were willing to. Team do not just let great 3 tech DTs walk unless there's an issue or an injury. About the only way you get one is to draft one high whose ready to start day one or you build one up which takes time. We could take one later but without a doubt Donald is the one most prepared to make an immediate impact. So if you think Safety trumps an elite pass rusher then go argue with Uncle Phil because he doesn't seem to think so and neither do I.

    I've made my case for it and you've yours. We don't agree so we'll leave it at that. No one will convince me that Pryor is a better pick than Donald at #14. And no one will convince me that Quarles or Sutton are acceptable subs for him as much as I believe either Ward or Bucannon are as good as we need as far as a Safety goes. I'm stubborn that way because I have looked it all over and my thinking is based on logic not emotion. We actually have more depth at Safety than we do at CB. You just don't like the choices.
    • Like Like x 2
  11. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Ratings:
    +1,914 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    I'm gonna add one more thing for consideration. Ponder this and the lack of logic surrounding it.

    Most everyone will hang laurel wreaths on Phil for the stupendous job he's done rebuilding and restocking both lines the past two offseasons plus a top TE and for letting go of unneeded vets but keeping and re-signing those more pivotal to our immediate success. The guy wants to win now. That's pretty clear to me and I've been one of his biggest critics.

    So on top of all of this a few of you want to maintain that he went out and signed a whole bunch of Safeties who are "garbage" or "trash" and can't play???? Doesn't that seem pretty contradictory to everything else he's done in FA so far? Every single guy he signed was good enough to start games for other teams, one has been a two year starter and Steltz has started for us before. Simply discarding their worth before we've seen them play one game isn't logical at all. It's biased and emotional.

    Uncle Phi doesn't even know IF he can draft one of the two top ranked Safeties at all so it stands to reason that he at least found a couple of guys in there who could play. He sure as hell did on the OLine, the DLine and at TE. So he was good enough to do that but went out and signed a bunch of rejects to play Safety right. Is that what some of you think? Think a little more OK?
    • Like Like x 2
  12. a_miljan

    a_miljan Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    268
    Ratings:
    +311 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    139ß
    Soul ur so high on Aaron, hope to God ur not mistaken (if we draft him). I could never be 100% in a player, thats why we have scouts and GM
  13. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Ratings:
    +1,914 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,760ß
    Let's just say I'm higher on him than anyone else we MIGHT have a shot at with that #14 pick and even that's not a for sure. I'm certainly higher on him that I am Pryor and I don't think the scouts have much bad to say about him either because much of the draftniks info comes from sifting through comments made by scouts and coaches and GM in addition to the Combine and whatever game tape they've chosen to study.

    There is no way to be 100% certain about any player and even as certain as you can be the guy could sustain a career altering injury in his rookie year or die before he plays a game for you like one former DT prospect did. What I do is the same thing I do when I research investments. Eliminate as much risk as possible then roll the dice. You'll never be 100% certain of any player but every indicator that anyone can go on says this kid can be a stud DT and that's good enough to take the risk.
  14. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +250 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    71ß
    I do want to close by saying that even though I prefer a Safety over a DT in the first round, I have the utmost trust and respect for this current front office regime than I ever have for any regime in my almost 30 years as a Bears fan.

    I will say that because of that trust, I will be happy with any pick that Emery and his staff decide to make.
    • Like Like x 4
  15. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,807
    Likes Received:
    631
    Ratings:
    +837 / 4 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    895ß
    Ditto. I trust Emery to make it work more than our previous GM's.

Share This Page